appolose said:
appolose said:
I'll set up a logical and possibly scientific proof for the supernatural.
Premise 1: Matter-energy cannot be created (1st law of thermodynamics) by physical means.
Premise 2: The universe (matter-energy) had a beginning.
Conclusion: The universe was created by non-physical (supernatural) means.
The logic of the argument is sound: If it wasn't a car that hit you, it was a non-car. Logic does not depend on the validity of the statements proposed, merely the consistency between them.
Now, onto Premise 1. I'm fairly sure no one's going to try to contradict that; universal consent by scientists (and I'm pretty sure a quantum flux will not usher into existence anything; it's not nothing that's fluxing, right?)
Premise 2: Now let's consider the lifespan of the universe: it's either going to expand continuously and freeze, or it'll collape onto itself. If the universe had been existence forever, then obviously it's death is not going to be the big freeze, which should have happened already. If the universe is going to collapse onto itself, again you have the same problem, unless you suggest that the universe re-expands and starts over (oscillating universe model). The problem with that is, there is an infinite time paradox: how did we cross an infinite amount of time? So, the universe had to have had a beginning because it would either be dead by now or it would be paradoxial to sugest otherwise.
I say all this to show that science can easily allow for the supernatural as an explanation, and to give an argument for the supernatural.
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In case you guys missed it.
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The conclusion only holds if the total energy of the universe is not equal to zero.
As the gravitational potential energy is negative (see: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_gravitational_potential_energy_negative_for_the_equation_of_Ep_equal_-GMm_over_r) it would depend on whether all that negative potential energy going around is enough to bring the total of the energy to zero.
According to Stephen Hawking in A Brief History of Time (p.129): "In the case of a universe that is approximatively uniform in space, one can show that the negative gravitational energy exactly cancels the positive energy represented by the matter. So the total energy of the universe is zero."
Now, science being what it is it is possible that later evidence points toward it being non-zero but if such is the case I have honestly not heard of it (yet). Such a non-zero value would be a good clue as to the possible existence of a deistic god. It would however be a stretch to go from "there may be a deistic god" to "that god can only be YAHWH/Elohim/Jesus/Allah" without further evidence pointing in either of these directions.
edit: sorry for the triple post but it's not like I didn't give you guys time to answer unless you are in bed, time differences and all... speaking of which, I have been awake for nearly 24h so I am soon going to hit the pillow.
