Do you believe in god?

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Retrasado said:

sieanr said:

Retrasado said:

hmm..... Well, considering the following fact, I think we can make a very good guess:

matter-energy cannot be created or destroyed

If you can't create matter-energy, how is it that any matter-energy exists? and where did it come from if it is utterly impossible to create it by any means no matter how advanced your technology and knowledge are?

The two possible answers are:

1) It just is and was always there

2) Something beyond our comprehension made it

I personally think the latter makes more sense, especially considering that other facts such as the second law of thermodynamics (the entropy of the universe is always increasing) become far easier to explain; but you cannot definitively disprove the first option either.

So you assume that the something beyond our comprehension is god?

call it whatever you want, but something that can create matter-energy might as well be god.... Like, there's NO possible way, even in the most remote and advanced scientific theory, that even gives a miniscule possibility of a way to create matter-energy. If you have the capability to do that, you will also have the capability to perform pretty much all of the actions associated with god. (ie. control weather, remove microbes from an object (ie. heal the sick), teleport, shape-shift, etc.)

 

Not quite...

The first law of thermodynamics assumes a closed system, we do not know if the universe is a closed sysytem (and actually have indications it isn't) and if it isn't we don't necessarily know that what is external to the universe operates under the same laws. 

In fact we know that particles (and even micro-black holes) pop into existance all the time, they are allowed to do so so long as they repay their cost shortly after, typically a given particle will be anilihated by its anti-particle paying for both of them but there are some circumstances that can lead to particles avoiding the cost and yet still existing.  The only logical scenarios this agrees with are that the universe is NOT a closed system or there is some method by which the energy cost is being paid that we are entirely unaware of.  The more likely scenario is that the univsere is not a closed system.

 

"To us, vacuums appear to contain nothing at all. But, if you were to look closely, very, very closely (to the order of 10^-35m), space is actually a foaming mass of quantum activity. This quantum foam is made of particles and micro-black holes popping in and out of existence, apparently in contravention of the second law of thermodynamics, they appear out of nothing with energy, then disappear again just as quickly. The key to this is the uncertainty principle. The disturbance is permitted to ‘borrow’ a tiny amount of energy and exist for a very short length of time, and then it must return the energy and disappear again. But, the more energy it borrows, the less time it is allowed to exist. These ‘temporary’ particles, called virtual particles, are not just theoretical, they have been proven to have real effects on scientific experiment."

Note: The 2nd law of thermodynamics is essentially that the entropy in a system will always increase. Also the links in this quote were added by me.