Do you believe in god?

[appolose]

sieanr said:

Retrasado said:

hmm..... Well, considering the following fact, I think we can make a very good guess:

matter-energy cannot be created or destroyed

If you can't create matter-energy, how is it that any matter-energy exists? and where did it come from if it is utterly impossible to create it by any means no matter how advanced your technology and knowledge are?

The two possible answers are:

1) It just is and was always there

2) Something beyond our comprehension made it

I personally think the latter makes more sense, especially considering that other facts such as the second law of thermodynamics (the entropy of the universe is always increasing) become far easier to explain; but you cannot definitively disprove the first option either.

So you assume that the something beyond our comprehension is god?

Not necessarily God, just something supernatural.

If I may expand upon the argument, I'll set up a logical and possibly scientific proof for the supernatural.

Premise 1:  Matter-energy cannot be created (1st law of thermodynamics) by physical means.

Premise 2:  The universe (matter-energy) had a beginning.

Conclusion:  The universe was created by non-physical (supernatural) means.

The logic of the argument is sound: If it wasn't a car that hit you, it was a non-car.  Logic does not depend on the validity of the statements proposed, merely the consistency between them.

Now, onto Premise 1.  I'm fairly sure no one's going to try to contradict that; universal consent by scientists (and I'm pretty sure a quantum flux will not usher into existence anything; it's not nothing that's fluxing, right?)

Premise 2:  Now let's consider the lifespan of the universe:  it's either going to expand continuously and freeze,  or it'll  collape onto itself.  If the universe had been existence forever, then obviously it's death is not going to be the big freeze, which should have happened already.  If the universe is going to collapse onto itself, again you have the same problem, unless you suggest that the universe re-expands and starts over (oscillating universe model).  The problem with that is, there is an infinite time paradox: how did we cross an infinite amount of time?  So, the universe had to have had a beginning because it would either be dead by now or it would be paradoxial to sugest otherwise.

I say all this to show that science can easily allow for the supernatural as an explanation, and to give an argument for the supernatural.