Aliens are out there, says former Nasa astronaut

[Sqrl]

Retrasado said:

Sqrl said:

@Retrasado,

Your view assumes they know nothing that we do not.  I agree completely with you that under our current knowledge and technological limits it is fairly unfeasible to make such trips, but we can't assume that about a possible alien civilization for the reasons I specified above. 

In addition I will add that it is widely believed amongst physicist that folding space for the purpose of travel is technically possible under our current understanding.  To be clear their position is essentially that it breaks no rules they can see and so should be possible, whether or not its a viable option in terms of energy cost, and whether or not it is safe are questions far beyond our current understanding but the fact that the door is open means it is possible for another civilization to have done it.

 

I'm not saying that that's they only way to travel interstellar distances, but any other way to travel it (like folding space) would require a LOT more energy than the amount I stated above. Also, assuming they could do this, they would obviously be a fair amount ahead of us technologically; which brings two other questions: The main one being, why would they want to visit us? If life is at least fairly common in the universe, I can't imagine our civilization having anything of note that would interest another civilization enough to visit us on a regular basis, though with no info on this topic, (ie. no other civilization to compare to) we obviously can't be sure on this. (One our inventions that another civilization may not have thought of would be multi-core computer processing) However, if they did have the technology to visit us frequently, they would most likely also have the technology to make it so we can't detect them easily (if at all).

Well I want to clarify a bit:

-I was not trying to imply that you were saying it was the only way to travel interstellar distances, only that you were assuming it was the most efficient way since it was the only method seriously considered.

-In your reply you assumed this again by stating that any other method would necessarily require more energy.

The problem is that we don't have a fundamental understanding of the way the universe works and without that we can't say with any certainty whether or not there exist a method to cheaply (relatively, in terms of energy input) fold space for the purpose of interstellar travel.  Science has certainly proven by now that many things were thought impossible right up until they were shown to be possible, in this case its actually thought to be possible to begin with. So call me an optimist but I'm not prepared to rule it out.

Really, what I'm saying is that your post did not show how difficult the trip would be for an advanced ET, you actually showed how difficult it would be for mankind at our current technology.  I say this because that's what all of your examples are implicitly geared towards due to your inability to know the unknown.  And until we learn a great deal more about the universe that will remain true.

Now to answer your other point about why they would visit us, I honestly have no idea and anything I say would be pure speculation, but for fun: It could be anything from social interest, to research, to a feeling of responsibility or something as cheesy and simple as the galactic federation mandating that all societies above a certain technological level be monitored for evaluating when they are worthy of first contact.  Or perhaps they visit to take technology as you pointed out, after all it seems unlikely they would have the exact same focuses as we do so its entirely possible we are more advanced in some areas. There are enumerable reasons and we should also consider that they are motivated in fundamentally different ways since we know that our own motivation is (at least in part) a function of our brain design/chemistry.  Again these are all pure speculation.

Which is why I wanted to point out again that I'm not convinced they are visiting us, what I am convinced of is that no person can legitimately claim to prove they have not visited us for the reasons I've gone over.  I am convinced that the majority of alleged UFO sightings are either hoaxes, horribly ignorant/dubious witnesses who are wrong/embellishing , or in some cases Military FUD (I personally wouldn't miss the opportunity in their shoes, its a great way to cover up the testing of experimental aircraft).  I believe that at best a small percentage of cases are actually UFOs (in the literal sense) and among those I'm unconvinced either way that any are ET related.

I understand your position and I certainly think the position itself, that they have not visited us, is a sound and reasonable one.  Really my only gripe is that you claimed to be able to prove it.  Personal certainty is one thing, claims of proof and declarations that others are wrong is another thing.  In fairness I think you were just trying to stress your point, but I suppose I shouldn't put words in your mouth so I'll let you speak to that if you wish.