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Happysquirrel said: Kwaads $8 figure (probably) comes from the reported royalties that were paid on PS2, XBox and Gamecube games. You could assume that the higher price point ($60) includes a higher royalty fee (say $12) ...
Even if that figure is acurate for last gen games, it simply cannot be true for this generation. Even a $12 royalty demands too high of an attach rate. Even figuring in figuring in blu-ray films, and higher profit margins on their own titles, you then have to calcuate their studio expenses, marketing on titles and system, and how about their free online services? It might be free to use but royalty fees have to pay for it. The only factor that can offset this equation is the decrease in production cost over time. Which is relatively impossible to calculate, and as that goes down so does the price of the system. And as is it seems consumer price will go down BEFORE production cost decreases dramatically. And I assume at some point they'll also have to cut royalty fees to continue to attract exclusive titles. Which also cuts into them recouping cost. Personally I don't see how the system will make money, unless the attach rate shoots above 10.



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Kwaad said: You can say the PS3 costs more to develop for, but that is the wrong answer, as it costs about 25-50% more to make the games for, yet the 360 is on the same technology level, wich actually makes the PS3 30% cheaper than a Wii to develop for.
This is possibly the most screwed up 'logic' I've ever heard.



Did I miss something? How did ps3's Madden go from outselling the Wii's every month up till Feb. where the Wii's Madden is number 39 and the ps3's Madden is completely off the list?



Ok I'm going to go into detail here really quick. 360 game = 10million PS3 port = 500,000 (basically a direct port, with a tweaked engine) Wii game = 2million (the graphics engine must be built from the ground up) The point here is. The Wii version is exclusive. It is not a port. It has to be built from the ground up. (or use a low-power version of a older engine... but then agian this system would be the same for the 360/PS3 versions, as they would be probibally using the same 'older' engine as well. You dont like my 39$ publisher cost? Add in a 5$ packaging. (things that cost the publisher) Add the publisher their 50% share. The developer gets 18$ with my system. Hot dam. So close to that article. I am not counting 3rd party games exclusive to the Wii. Unless they come to the PS3. The Wii has MUCH better 3rd party games than the PS3. You get rid of the 3 top 3rd party games on the Wii, and the PS3 is outselling the Wii in 3rd party. The fact on that is, There are so few games to buy on the PS3 (mostly because they all suck) And then the few good ones... for a weirdo chance... are all Sony. In reference to the 500,000 units sold to pay off 8million$ development costs. That sounds about right. That's what the developergets. Not the publisher. :) Double that. $34.40 Is what the publisher gets total. Wow. Look at that. I was only 5$ off. Want me to re-do my math for it? I dont have time now. Sorry. Here is my point on cost to make PS3+360 = 10million (7million NA alone) meaning if 8% of gamers buy this game who have a PS3/360, the game will have made profit. Wii = 3million (2.3million (NA alone) This game needs 30% of people to buy this game. You guys wouldnt be trying to talk about a high budget PS3/360 game port, and a low budget Wii game? I recall some x-box games cost over 10million to make. ;) I would put Wii developer costs at between 4-6million for a average game. This trolling Is really funny. I dont know what you guys have agianst this. But it's funnier than crap, becuase you defend it calling me a idiot, screwed up logic, and saying I am downright WRONG. So far I have corrected my numbers a little. Overall everything is the SAME. Wii 3rd party multiplatform games have outsold the PS3 by like 4000 units. (The Wii only has like 900,000 more units sold tho) There is a 50% chance a multiplatform game sells better on PS3 than Wii. These are VGcharts numbers. I am just putting them together. How about you get off your nintendo band-wagon, and smell the roses. If you wanna correct my royalties number. Please do so. But make sure I have a correct one for nintendo as well. I'm gonna drop it with this. Reason is. If it sells on both consoles. That shows 3rd party love. On both consoles, from a multiplatform game. It is not fair to compare Wii to PS3 in alot of ways.



PSN ID: Kwaad


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fooflexible said: Did I miss something? How did ps3's Madden go from outselling the Wii's every month up till Feb. where the Wii's Madden is number 39 and the ps3's Madden is completely off the list?
Nah it's on the list. 53 PS3 Madden NFL 07 EA 4 33,250 335,250



PSN ID: Kwaad


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HappySqurriel said: robjoh said: America: (Wii) Rayman Raving Rabbids - Ubisoft - 375,250 (Wii) Red Steel - Ubisoft - 335,500 (PS3) Madden NFL 07 - EA - 335,250 (Wii) Madden NFL 07 - EA - 311,250 (Wii) Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz - Sega - 267,250 (Wii) Call of Duty 3 - Activision - 251,250 (PS3) Call of Duty 3 - Activision - 212,000 (Wii) Marvel: Ultimate Alliance - Activision - 207750 (PS3) Need for Speed: Carbon - EA - 185,500 (Wii) Trauma Center: Second Opinion - Atlus - 172,000 (PS3) Fight Night Round 3 - EA - 168,250 (PS3) Marvel: Ultimate Alliance - Activision - 160,000 (Wii) Dragonball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2 - Atari - 134,500 (Wii) Need for Speed: Carbon - EA - 128,250 (Wii) Tony Hawk Downhill Jam - Activision - 123,500 (Wii) Elebits - Konami - 114,250 (PS3) Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 - EA - 113,000 (PS3) NBA 2K7 - Take 2 - 111,500 (PS3) Tony Hawk Project 8 - Activision -112,000 (PS3) Ridge Racer 7 - Namco - 98,500 (Wii) Rampage: Total Destruction - Midway - 95,500 (Wii) Sonic and the Secret Rings - Sega - 88,500 (PS3) Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII - Ubisoft - 76,000 (PS3) Full Auto 2: Battlelines - Sega - 75,500 (Wii ) Super Swing Golf - Tecmo - 69,250 (Wii) Rapala Trophies: Pro Tournament Fishing - Activision - 68,750 (Wii) Metal Slug Anthology - SNK - 64,750 (PS3) Virtua Fighter 5 - Sega - 56,750 (PS3) Major League Baseball 2K7 - Take 2 - 34,750 (PS3) Sonic the Hedgehog - Sega -33,250
Very good 3rd party numbers for wii, remember this is USA only. For the most part the quality games are being bought. None of these titles are AAA titles, so expecting something like 1 million in sales is kind of rediculous. Games like Madden are gonna sell better on PS3 just because of the type of gamers that PS3 has, while games like Sonic and Rayman are gonna sell better on Wii. Tiger Woods on wii is gonna sell much better than the ps3 version though.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

All that shows is multiplats aren't going to work that well on the Wii, which, given its differences with the 360/PS3, should've been a no-brainer to begin with. That and the effect of having to compete with a much better first-party producer. Wii will get a lot of exclusives and miss out on a lot of exclusives. Can someone post the full game list with first-party included?



Okay... First of all, the increase in price is probably cut up proportionate to last-gen prices. Its a 20% price increase, and everyone on the money-go-round wants their cut. Yes, the attach rate would have to be impossibly high at 7-10 bucks a game, and 150 bucks lost per console, plus probably another 50 or 100 bucks lost on advertising... But obviously Sony is planning on reducing hardware costs, to make a profit a few years down the road... People should be aware of the great deal that publisher/developer cuts may vary. On an anticipated mega-hit, they've got to give a bigger cut to the retailer... They could get anywhere from 15-25% of the game's price... The console maker's cut can vary even more... Though in that case, their cut is bigger on smaller games... It is rumored that some mega-hits have the liscensing fees waived entirely to ensure exclusivity... What I get from this thread is that third party games are overall performing better on Wii than PS3... Wiis exclusives are performing better than PS3s exclusives... Cross-platform games are about even, despite mixed reviews about Wii controls in traditional games... And certainly Tiger Woods will tip the scales towards Wii when next months numbers come out... Wii games are up 5:1 in terms of reaching the quarter-million mark, and make up 10 of the top 15 third party games between the two systems... Furthermore, most of PS3s third party hits come from mega-developers like EA and Activision, while Wii already has a ton of small third party developers prospering.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

Kwaad said: In reference to the 500,000 units sold to pay off 8million$ development costs. That's what the developergets. Not the publisher. :)
I know he used the word developer(or at least the translator has), but since he represents a publsiher with intenral development studios, I took his word to apply to publishers as well. Nonetheless his point I think remains the same, I don't think a developer seperate from the publisher wait's longer to recoup cost. If it takes the developer 500,000 units to recoup cost then it takes the publisher the same amount of time. yet my point was that Sony must have a higher royalty rate, simply to recoup lost monies, while Nintendo doesn't need to recoup cost. Yet they are in the business of making money, hence I'm sure they keep their royalty rate competitive. Unfortanetly there is close to no sources of info for finding out royalty costs. Maybe because is does fluctuate pending the project and publisher, and maybe Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo is very hush hush about this considering their involvement with many companies.
Kwaad said: The point here is. The Wii version is exclusive. It is not a port. It has to be built from the ground up. (or use a low-power version of a older engine... but then agian this system would be the same for the 360/PS3 versions, as they would be probibally using the same 'older' engine as well.
I see your point here, and it's a good one. I think this is also why many publishers haven't bothered with Wii ports of 360/ps3 titles. The extra work wasn't worth the cost. Yet where your logic is faulty so far has been the idea that the Wii titles are exclusive, with games like Man hunt 2 they have anounced Wii/ps2 combos, even adding psp. Apperantly it's easier to do a Wii/psp then it is to do a 360/ps3/Wii. But hey if they can reuse an engine for a ps2/psp/wii release to reduce cost then good for them. Although as the ps2 starts to die off, your argument will have a stronger case. And I think because of it, you'll see fewer multiplatform titles hit all three next-gen systems. In fact this is the biggest reason I'm surprised Nintendo didn't push the graphics a little more. With something a little better they could at least have provided developers with a system that can handled watered down 360/ps3 titles. At this point developers are all saying that's not an option. yet because of it, Nintendo in the long run may get less multiplatform titles, and more exclusive titles that drive it's content in different and original arenas, and continue to dominate as the second choice system, which in the end may get it put in more houses then any other system. Either way it will be interesting to see what happens.



fooflexible said: And I think because of it, you'll see fewer multiplatform titles hit all three next-gen systems. In fact this is the biggest reason I'm surprised Nintendo didn't push the graphics a little more. With something a little better they could at least have provided developers with a system that can handled watered down 360/ps3 titles. At this point developers are all saying that's not an option. yet because of it, Nintendo in the long run may get less multiplatform titles, and more exclusive titles that drive it's content in different and original arenas, and continue to dominate as the second choice system, which in the end may get it put in more houses then any other system. Either way it will be interesting to see what happens.
I actuly think that your posting in this thread is really good, and pointing on some areas that I haven't thought of but here is something that I don't understand... Continue to dominating as the second system... Well at least in Japan Wii is the first consol, might be seen as the second system to DS. USA is also seeing good sales in both hardware and software, and is for the moment selling more than Xbox360 and PS3. EU is also going strong for the moment. I actuly think that one of the reasons the 3rd party support will be better for Wii than GC is the higher sales which actuly indicates that it might be the dominating system for this gen! But back to the sales number: I think that when you pointed out that 500k was needed to break even. This might actuly mean that the xbox360 and ps3 might become were much alike expect some few exclusivs. (PS3 is in real shit if this is true, I mean no 3rd parties is even close in USA, and the sales in Japan is not that good either). This I think can actuly means that Wii will become the dominating plattform because if offers something totally different than the other two players. Wii might lose some games like CoD or Need for speed, but mayby they will get more exclusive games from small devs that can't afford devloping for PS3.



 

 

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