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Forums - Gaming Discussion - In-depth comparison of the big three's motion controllers.

Whoa that's a big block of text you got there. Can someone sum it up? Which one has the best motion sensor? Which one is most practical? Will anyone other than Nintendo make money?



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I will quote myself from another topic:

the_bloodwalker said:

I checked all three evolutions of controllers and even though they were impressive, WM+ is by far the better of the three. In sony's Eye camera with the wand and on NATAL I found many problems in terms of game design and gaming experience

NATAL:


Microsoft made one step forward and three steps back with this technology, and even though it's impressive, it fails to be a competent input device on it's own for gaming. The step forward it took was with the camera technology and it's capabilities to track different movements by different people and reacts accordigly, this step in technology is forward by reuniting different people to play a game with just one input device for the console: the camera itself.

The first step back is that by removing the controller from the player's hands, it actually disconnects from the game more than with a standard controller, because thhe number of outputs from teh system to the player is reduced to just audio and video. With a standard controller, when you crash in a racing game, your controller shakes and the amplitude of that motion depends on the force of the impact, you know, besides seeing the OMG scene and hearing the sounds of metal becoming scrap, you feel how hard that hit was. With Natal, you only see and hear, not feel.

A simple solution will be having peripherals that will deliver that rumble feedback to the player, these peripherals will differ depending on the game in otder to feel more immersive to the game (racket for tennis, wheel for racing, etc). However, by having these extension, the concept of hand-free playing is nullified, and will seem much more similar to Sony's solution for motion, only with cheaper peripherals and a more expensive camera. This is the second step back. Now, if this peripheral is made (i.e. a glove --put power glove joke here--), what should give the rumble commands to the feedback devive? The Camera, it will increase it's cost; so the solution will be the console, and that means you have two devices: one that serves as input and one as output. That's the third step back

Under this analysis, even thought the technology is the most advanced of the three it comes last place as a capable gaming input device

 

PS EYE + MOTION CONTROLLERS

I watched the demos during the conference and it impressed me with the real time 1:1 response that is faster than WM+. the augmented reality to add a virtual add-on to the controller is also interesting. A step in the right direction far better than Microsoft, however, they have a very long way to go, because it's the technology that is way behind Natal. They did the right thing by keeping a controller in the gamer's hands, that way a feedback can be given to the pleyer in the form of rumble -and audio if they manage to copy from the wii remote- when an action is performed.

The first issue I see is that the "ball" in teh controller (will be replaced in the future) acts as a reference to the camera to locate the controller's position in space, so in that you can tell that the accelerometer technology is behind SIXAXIS to have it cheap. Only tilt sensors (gyroscopes) are used to detect the controller's rotation whle teh position is detected by the camera itself, so you can hide the refenrence to teh camera and teh controller is as good as a plastic stick.

The solution will mean to have accelerometers or ultra sonic sensors to pintpoit the location of the controller besides the camera, that could be in the same controller on in the extension that it will have. However, this will rener the camera useless and relegated only as a simple expensive eye toy and teh controller will look very similar to the Wii remote+nunchuck. This is the problem I see that Sony needs to resolve and that takes more time that the development of the technology.

Besides, as it is now, you have two input devices and one serves in extra feedback to the player, is not integrated

 

Wii MOTION+

The Wii sensor bar is not an putput device, it only receives energy from teh console. So you can replace it woth two candles or any sensor bar with infrared emmiters and batteries. and games like Mario Kart does not use the IR in a race. The technology resides entirelly on the Wii-remote.

With the Wii remote you have one input device that delivers feedback to the player in rumble and the added speaker that deliver sounds that are not in your TV or audio system. The nunchuck and the WiiMotion+ are just extension that makes teh remote a fully integrated input device that to the Wii it's still one and one only.

WM+ adds not just more presition to the movement, but more responsiveness and more accurate position placement that reduces the sensor bar to just a reference to point at the tv screen.

 

CONCLUSION:

Even though in sense of technology NATAL>PSEYE + MOTION CONTROLS>WM+ in actual gaming applications as integrated systems

1. WM+ => done right and ready for production on almost any kind of game

2. PSEye + Motion => good concepts but with many, many roadblocks

3. NATAL => It will be far more successful in PC applicactions than in actual gaming

 



Cueil said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
How are you going to walk around in a FPS or TPS or 3rd person adventure melee game with these 3 control methods? Only one of these controllers lets you use a joystick at the same time, which is the industry standard control for movement.


I think you're forgetting that both of these technologies have some time till their release.  I also think that many of you feel that Natal has more limiting factors than it actually does.  Who says that you can't use your controller with Natal?  Who says Microsoft wont create a break away controller and comes apart into separate pieces... same with Sony.  They could map the DS3 onto those wands.  What I think Natal has some really big potential in is what Wii dominates in right now... Fitness.  As for none controller movements in a FPS... how about moving your shoulders as if you were walking with a real gun or lifting up your feet?  You could swing your arms... the bigger problem would be turning.  I think we'll much better tech when these two products finally launch.

That's the delima with Natal. As far as I can tell, the whole presentation of Natal is promoting that you don't need any controllers and it gives you total freedom as well as the ease for anyone to play. If MS were to offer a controller to use with Natal, it would totally defeat the whole purpose of project Natal and look like a PSEye + wand knockoff.



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

peachbuggy said:
How can people say a device whch was basically a hurriedly knocked up rip off could have higher tech than something that has been around/ researched on since the start of this gen? Am sure you can't tell just from a couple of minutes' demo.

I suppose you meant that Sony's solution is the ripoff, since MS's is so different.

Actually it was not hurriedly knocked up at all: google for stuff like "sony wand motion control patent" and you'll find Sony submitting patents about the camera+wand with a glowing led array back in August 2005. That's even before the TGS where the Wii controls (Revolution, back then) were demonstrated. Plus the EyeToy with specific motion controlled software has been around since 2002 and if I remember well it in turns derives from something on the Saturn or Dreamcast.

As for "higher tech", both Sony's and Nintendo's solutions are really simple, technologically-wise, whereas Natal is much more complex. But Sony's demo, geeky and uncomfortable as the presenters were, showed something that works quite well, and even some things that the Wiimote and WM+ can't do (see previous posts in this thread about absolute positioning).

Now the point is what will MS and Sony do with their technologies, as in how much they want (or will be able) to pursue the same market that bought umpteen millions of WiiFit and balance boards.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

For OP's information:

1. There is no such thing as 3D camera. To achieve the "3d camera" effect you need more than 1 actual camera. Cameras takes pictures (motion pictures), and pictures as everyone should be aware of are 2D not 3D. For example the image you see on the screen when playing a 3D game it's 2D. Being able to rotate your character in-game makes the game 3D, but the actual image you see it's still 2D.

2. "However, even if the room is completely dark and the camera in Natal is unable to see anything, the 3D camera continues to function."

Images are created by the light that reflects on objects. With no light theres no image. This is teached in primary school I think.



 

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FaithRaven said:
For OP's information:

1. There is no such thing as 3D camera. To achieve the "3d camera" effect you need more than 1 actual camera. Cameras takes pictures (motion pictures), and pictures as everyone should be aware of are 2D not 3D. For example the image you see on the screen when playing a 3D game it's 2D. Being able to rotate your character in-game makes the game 3D, but the actual image you see it's still 2D.

2. "However, even if the room is completely dark and the camera in Natal is unable to see anything, the 3D camera continues to function."

Images are created by the light that reflects on objects. With no light theres no image. This is teached in primary school I think.


wow, for something that doesn't exist, a simple google search sure brings up a lot of results of 3d camera's... :) 

Although, you do have a point, as 3d camera's all have more than 1 lens and usually are capturing images at different depth to create the 3d effect.  So I don't see how natel can operate in the dark, but I'm not saying it isn't possible.  After all, there are all sorts of ways for camera's to capture ambient light in low light situations, like night vision and what not.



gergroy said:
FaithRaven said:
For OP's information:

1. There is no such thing as 3D camera. To achieve the "3d camera" effect you need more than 1 actual camera. Cameras takes pictures (motion pictures), and pictures as everyone should be aware of are 2D not 3D. For example the image you see on the screen when playing a 3D game it's 2D. Being able to rotate your character in-game makes the game 3D, but the actual image you see it's still 2D.

2. "However, even if the room is completely dark and the camera in Natal is unable to see anything, the 3D camera continues to function."

Images are created by the light that reflects on objects. With no light theres no image. This is teached in primary school I think.


wow, for something that doesn't exist, a simple google search sure brings up a lot of results of 3d camera's... :) 

Although, you do have a point, as 3d camera's all have more than 1 lens and usually are capturing images at different depth to create the 3d effect.  So I don't see how natel can operate in the dark, but I'm not saying it isn't possible.  After all, there are all sorts of ways for camera's to capture ambient light in low light situations, like night vision and what not.

So you're telling me that I'm wrong and then that I'm right ? :) The key is in your words: "3D effect" which is very different from real 3D. Real 3D camera actually means multiple cameras placed around the subject so they can capture plenty of angles.

In the second point you talk about low light while the discussion was about, let me quote, "complete dark".

On the other hand, thanks for agreeing with me :)



 

Natal will be the most expensive, Sony's motion controller will be priced the same as Wii's motion plus



^^As for the darkness problem, you can resort to infrared illumination and sensors. But it can play havoc with remotes :)



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

Natal actually uses a depth sensor to get 3D information. It consists of an infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor. So lighting conditions make no difference what so ever.

It is probably based off of the time-of-flight model where the sensor sends pulses of light(in this case, infrared) and calculates the distance based on the time till a reflection is generated.