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Forums - General Discussion - How will homosexuality will affect us in the future,Are you happy about it?

I think too many people are focused on the idea that without God, Allah, [insert deity or religious structure of your choice] that morality is somehow in danger. As a religious person, I say that is a load of bull. Without even getting into the ethics of the entire discussion, many of the worst people I have ever met claim to be very religious while some of the nicest and least judgemental people I have met are atheist, agnostic, [insert label here that they probably got wrong anyway].

If you look at what someone like Jean-Paul Sartre says, there is almost a greater need for some kind of morality if God doesn't exist, because that means that "anything is possible" in that there is no supernaturally ratified scheme of right and wrong. Our existence would unquestionably precede the essence, or underlying meaning, of our existence, and we would be responsible for fulfilling the meaning in our own life. We would be entirely responsible for the choices we make and must live with their consequences without any hope of spiritual remuneration.  Life would in many ways be harder if there was no God, because, while no society would allow everything to be permissible, it would be our responsibility to create an ethical guideline which would increase the quality of our lives without excessively restricting people's freedom.

Whether you look at it from a religious or areligious standpoint, it essentially boils down to how does person X's behavior negatively affect those around them and how does it negatively affect society as a whole. If their behavior is detrimental to their own well-being or questionable when put through the lens of a religious system like Christianity, that doesn't mean it should be judged or punished if it does not have negative repercussions for those around them.

A good example would be someone who has a homosexual relationship versus someone who smokes crystal meth. Both of these behaviors are frowned upon by many people in society, with the latter frowned upon by just about everyone. So what is the real difference between the two? Both are morally reprehensible according to Judeo-Christian scripture as selfish and irresponsible.

Many people may be offended by a homosexual relationship, but the relationship itself does not involve them, and restricting that relationship or treating it as if it were incomparable to a heterosexual relationship is misguided because the social consequences of that relationship are relatively minor. The only people who are affected by it in a negative way are those who allow themselves to be affected by it in a negative way. An issue such as whether or not a homosexual couple should be allowed to adopt children is a better issue to debate about, but restricting that is also against society's interests since the kids would be better off with some parents rather than none.

On the other hand, someone who smokes crystal meth or indulges in any of the more dangerous narcotics is often a danger to themselves and those around them. Their behavior becomes unpredictable, and they can attack, kill, or steal from random strangers, their friends, and even their own family because of the mind-altering effects of the drug. Obviously, it is not in society's interest to have people taking narcotics. In many ways alcohol is far more dangerous than a drug like marijuana as well because it encourages far more socially disruptive behavior than its counterpart.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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If everyone was gay, there would be no human race. If everyone was straight, there will continue to be one.

Personally I am disgusted when I see gay people kissing/being popularised in the media.

I'll leave it at that.



MGS4!

Torillian said:
bardicverse said:
ssj12 said:

The Bible also is nothing more then a historical story book, thats right I said it. The Bible's stories are twisted stories of either what really happened, example the Plagues, or stories of faith, example Noah's Arch. A book and religion that has changed and been rewritten hundreds of times holds as much truth in it as the Harry Potter books.

The concept of Religion is hope based. Without a belief of a higher being, or afterlife, or next step, there would be no belief in and of hope in this world. Without hope for even a better day then today, for example, would make this a very depressing world.

In general, you put the belief of what is right and wrong based on what a book told you. You have not allowed yourself to freely believe what you want. You are not letting your own thoughts freely understand the world around you and what is really right and wrong.

 

Careful now, you're backing your knowledge on the topic based off of what? What a bunch of fans of the Crow-turned-athiest post on their blogs? Its a modern thought, what you state, but it is backed by no evidence whatsoever beyond opinion. All the Anne Rice fans who fell in love with Interview With a Vampire would surely agree with you, but attacking a structure of a religion or faith without solid documented fact that proves otherwise to circa de 33 AD is not making you out to be anything beyond either A - ignorant or B - intolerant.

That said, I will concur that there are some misinterpretations throughout Biblical translation, such as the one line in which it says "Do not keep company with with sorcerers and fortune-tellers", as it was in the Greek version "poisoners and assassins".

It is common of neo-Athiesm to claim the Bible to be nothing more than a storybook, but again, people do such with no fact, only contempt with the faiths associated with it. It's sort of like attacking MGS4 as being the worst game ever without ever having even touched a PS3.

 

 

Other side of the fence is no better as far as coherent arguing goes.  If you've ever talked to someone about religion while not believing in God or what the Bible says then their argument is just rediculous.  It's just a bunch of bible passages being regurgitated back at me without anything to back them up beyond that.  Both sides have no evidence, because obviously if we had evidence the choice would be real damn simple.

Well evidence has been shown throughout about the Bible's editing and the Church's acts for a male dominated religion.

There has been tons of documentaries, studies, and research that can be found that proves that what I said is fact. This why I stated what I did. I used my knowledge of these documentaries and findings as my bases.

Just like the documentary "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" showed, there were many documents thrown out by the Church. Many that shown Jesus was not a divine entity, others that shown that Mary had Jesus's child in France.

As an agnostic believer, I believe that all religion are based around a certain principle but they all have some form of historical grounds to their beliefs as well. On the other hand I believe evolution is really where we all came from as you can see it today. Everyone is fighting to keep their hair yet I predict that in 50 days that most people will be hairless or at least have 50% less hair.

I'm posting here not to argue what is real or fake but to state my beliefs. No one here has to agree but it would be nice to see some of you look take a step back and look at the entire picture versus small chunks like I do.

 



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
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wow, quite a few homophobes on this site :S



akuma587 said:

I think too many people are focused on the idea that without God, Allah, [insert deity or religious structure of your choice] that morality is somehow in danger. As a religious person, I say that is a load of bull. Without even getting into the ethics of the entire discussion, many of the worst people I have ever met claim to be very religious while some of the nicest and least judgemental people I have met are atheist, agnostic, [insert label here that they probably got wrong anyway].

If you look at what someone like Jean-Paul Sartre says, there is almost a greater need for some kind of morality if God doesn't exist, because that means that "anything is possible" in that there is no supernaturally ratified scheme of right and wrong. Our existence would unquestionably precede the essence, or underlying meaning, of our existence, and we would be responsible for fulfilling the meaning in our own life. We would be entirely responsible for the choices we make and must live with their consequences without any hope of spiritual remuneration.  Life would in many ways be harder if there was no God, because, while no society would allow everything to be permissible, it would be our responsibility to create an ethical guideline which would increase the quality of our lives without excessively restricting people's freedom.

Whether you look at it from a religious or areligious standpoint, it essentially boils down to how does person X's behavior negatively affect those around them and how does it negatively affect society as a whole. If their behavior is detrimental to their own well-being or questionable when put through the lens of a religious system like Christianity, that doesn't mean it should be judged or punished if it does not have negative repercussions for those around them.

A good example would be someone who has a homosexual relationship versus someone who smokes crystal meth. Both of these behaviors are frowned upon by many people in society, with the latter frowned upon by just about everyone. So what is the real difference between the two? Both are morally reprehensible according to Judeo-Christian scripture as selfish and irresponsible.

Many people may be offended by a homosexual relationship, but the relationship itself does not involve them, and restricting that relationship or treating it as if it were incomparable to a heterosexual relationship is misguided because the social consequences of that relationship are relatively minor. The only people who are affected by it in a negative way are those who allow themselves to be affected by it in a negative way. An issue such as whether or not a homosexual couple should be allowed to adopt children is a better issue to debate about, but restricting that is also against society's interests since the kids would be better off with some parents rather than none.

On the other hand, someone who smokes crystal meth or indulges in any of the more dangerous narcotics is often a danger to themselves and those around them. Their behavior becomes unpredictable, and they can attack, kill, or steal from random strangers, their friends, and even their own family because of the mind-altering effects of the drug. Obviously, it is not in society's interest to have people taking narcotics. In many ways alcohol is far more dangerous than a drug like marijuana as well because it encourages far more socially disruptive behavior than its counterpart.

 

very good post, I agree with many of your points. I'll have to reread it a few times to decide if there are anything specific I want to reply about. From first read through I believe there really isnt anything to reply to.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
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akuma587 said:

I think too many people are focused on the idea that without God, Allah, [insert deity or religious structure of your choice] that morality is somehow in danger. As a religious person, I say that is a load of bull. Without even getting into the ethics of the entire discussion, many of the worst people I have ever met claim to be very religious while some of the nicest and least judgemental people I have met are atheist, agnostic, [insert label here that they probably got wrong anyway].

If you look at what someone like Jean-Paul Sartre says, there is almost a greater need for some kind of morality if God doesn't exist, because that means that "anything is possible" in that there is no supernaturally ratified scheme of right and wrong. Our existence would unquestionably precede the essence, or underlying meaning, of our existence, and we would be responsible for fulfilling the meaning in our own life. We would be entirely responsible for the choices we make and must live with their consequences without any hope of spiritual remuneration.  Life would in many ways be harder if there was no God, because, while no society would allow everything to be permissible, it would be our responsibility to create an ethical guideline which would increase the quality of our lives without excessively restricting people's freedom.

Whether you look at it from a religious or areligious standpoint, it essentially boils down to how does person X's behavior negatively affect those around them and how does it negatively affect society as a whole. If their behavior is detrimental to their own well-being or questionable when put through the lens of a religious system like Christianity, that doesn't mean it should be judged or punished if it does not have negative repercussions for those around them.

A good example would be someone who has a homosexual relationship versus someone who smokes crystal meth. Both of these behaviors are frowned upon by many people in society, with the latter frowned upon by just about everyone. So what is the real difference between the two? Both are morally reprehensible according to Judeo-Christian scripture as selfish and irresponsible.

Many people may be offended by a homosexual relationship, but the relationship itself does not involve them, and restricting that relationship or treating it as if it were incomparable to a heterosexual relationship is misguided because the social consequences of that relationship are relatively minor. The only people who are affected by it in a negative way are those who allow themselves to be affected by it in a negative way. An issue such as whether or not a homosexual couple should be allowed to adopt children is a better issue to debate about, but restricting that is also against society's interests since the kids would be better off with some parents rather than none.

On the other hand, someone who smokes crystal meth or indulges in any of the more dangerous narcotics is often a danger to themselves and those around them. Their behavior becomes unpredictable, and they can attack, kill, or steal from random strangers, their friends, and even their own family because of the mind-altering effects of the drug. Obviously, it is not in society's interest to have people taking narcotics. In many ways alcohol is far more dangerous than a drug like marijuana as well because it encourages far more socially disruptive behavior than its counterpart.

Nice post. I sometimes think that rationality is merely a mood. If it is then I'm glad you're in it.



Thatmax said:
wow, quite a few homophobes on this site :S

It surprised me too to be honest. I've lived in the UK and USA. I've never had any insults thrown at me at work or in public although I think I am lucky in that respect. The size of the husband would probably deter most opportunistic jibes ;) Aren't there far more important things in the world to worry about? World hunger, poverty, HIV, dictators, Zimbabwe, the situation in Iraq, global warming, destruction of rain forests and oceans to name a few.

Just a thought I wanna throw out here, I have seen a steep rise of younger teens (15-17 mainly) who are 90% of the time emo deciding that they are gay or bi, to me this seems like many (not all) are attention seeking emos who want more shock value. I would be surprised if in 2 years time more than 20% still claim to be gay or bi.

so here are my thoughts

A- due to the media attention and "controversialness" off being gay teens are taking curiosity to another level and feeling that that makes them gay.

B- Attention seeking emos are on the rise :D

C- There genuinly has been a rise in homosexuals this generation.

D- There hasnt been a rise but more people are simply realising that they are gay, and there are many adults who havent come to terms with their sexuality yet.

E- A mix of the above.


Personaly I feel that it is a mix of A B and C and we cant make a hasty generalisation about this.



Well most people are bisexual in some form, whether they act on it or not or are even conscious of it at all or not. And by bisexual I mean anything other than 100% straight or 100% gay. You can be anywhere from 1% to 99%, in the middle. It really is shaped like a bell curve.

100% heterosexuals are just as rare as 100% homosexuals.

Personally, I'm probably 80-90% hetero, but I'd definitely bend the rules for David Bowie or Jeremy Irons, hahaha.

So there are a lot of people who can be 10-40% gay or even 50% gay, and throughout most of history they would've repressed this out of fear of being murdered, and nowadays they feel more comfortable experimenting and fully understanding their own sexualities.

Gayness isn't on the rise.

Acceptance of one's own sexual/emotional feelings/desires is on the rise.

 

Edit: Emos being on the rise however, IS a problem that I think we should all be concerned with.



@Thatmax

I'd choose B.

Just try a MySpace like page, 90% of the people who claim to be emo (and those are A LOT) also say they're bi or, to a lesser degree, gay.