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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Second MGS4 review in -score 92 "story too complex"

rocketpig on 20 May 2008
TheRealMafoo said:
HappySqurriel said:

I don't disagree that when well done a complicated story can be great ... I won't get into it too much, but I have always felt that the "Great" storytelling in a lot of games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy is far closer to Van Helsing or Transformers than to good literature or movies.


I agree there. I have yet to play a game that rivals a good movie. Mostly because of pace. The closest would be GTAIV, if you like movies like Goodfellas, or the the TV show The Sopranos.


I think Mass Effect had some of the best pacing for an open-ended story-driven game. It was just enough to make it somewhat believable while keeping it simple enough to not get in its own way.

The last three hours of that game are what I expect from a story-driven game. It ramps up and keeps going right until the end. 




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rocketpig on 20 May 2008
billy07 said:
rocketpig said:
HappySqurriel said:
TheRealMafoo said:
HappySqurriel said:
Zucas said:
Story too complex? Oh come on similar reasons why they marked down on NMH. Said not understandable cause it was punk. Well if they'd fucking understand punk before passing judgement then there wouldn't be a problem. God I hate reviewers.

Complex stories are not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but depending on why they're complex may make it a good or a bad thing ...

In general, I tend to prefer simple plot lines where the complexity in the story comes from character development. As an example of what I mean, the story line of any of the Star Wars prequels is far more complicated than the stories of the original trillogy, but (in my opinion) the original trillogy is far better because the lack of complicated story details allowed characters to be developed fully.

Movies like Van Helsing and Wild Wild West often seem much more silly than movies with a similar tone, like the Mummy, mainly because their story is so complicated that it destroys any believeability.


yea, but movies like "LA Confidential" are far better because they are complex. It all depends on how they do it.


I don't disagree that when well done a complicated story can be great ... I won't get into it too much, but I have always felt that the "Great" storytelling in a lot of games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy is far closer to Van Helsing or Transformers than to good literature or movies.


Or most anime. Complexity is only a good thing when it adds to the character development. When things go absurd (a la MGS series), the complexity becomes a burden and the story evolves into a convoluted mess under a shrouded veil of "depth". Depth is usually something that is brought on through subtlety, not by trying to pack in every looney idea that pops into the writer's head.


Still buying the game? :P Story "too" complex, and same "mistakes" made as in MGS2? Things aren't looking too good for you in MGS4 land...


It's a rental. If I like it, I'll buy it. What's the deal with MGO? Anyone know? Does it come with MGS4 or is it a separate game that I'll have to purchase? That will weigh pretty heavily on whether I buy it from Gamefly or not.




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billy07 on 20 May 2008

It comes with the game, 5 maps included. The rest will be downloadable.



TheRealMafoo on 20 May 2008
rocketpig said:

It's a rental. If I like it, I'll buy it. What's the deal with MGO? Anyone know? Does it come with MGS4 or is it a separate game that I'll have to purchase? That will weigh pretty heavily on whether I buy it from Gamefly or not.


It comes with MGS, and I was in the beta. Was fun. A very unique online experience.

 



rocketpig on 20 May 2008

Ah, okay. That gives me more incentive to buy MGS then.




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HappySqurriel on 20 May 2008
libellule said:
HappySqurriel said:
Zucas said:
Story too complex? Oh come on similar reasons why they marked down on NMH. Said not understandable cause it was punk. Well if they'd fucking understand punk before passing judgement then there wouldn't be a problem. God I hate reviewers.

Complex stories are not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but depending on why they're complex may make it a good or a bad thing ...

In general, I tend to prefer simple plot lines where the complexity in the story comes from character development. As an example of what I mean, the story line of any of the Star Wars prequels is far more complicated than the stories of the original trillogy, but (in my opinion) the original trillogy is far better because the lack of complicated story details allowed characters to be developed fully.

Movies like Van Helsing and Wild Wild West often seem much more silly than movies with a similar tone, like the Mummy, mainly because their story is so complicated that it destroys any believeability.


==> huh ???  Why do you bring to us poor movie like WWW or VH ???
Seriously, ur next will be Transformer and 300 ?

 


Van Helsing was fresh in my memory because I watched the first 10 minutes of it on TV yesterday ...

At the time I was thinking about how the stupid convoluted plot would be eaten up by a lot of people had it been a videogame; a secret underground agency in the catholic church has developed weapons in order to hunt down unnatural beasts, and their greatest member (Van Helsing) is traveling to romania to battle Dracula to protect the gypsy princess.



TheRealMafoo on 20 May 2008
rocketpig said:
TheRealMafoo said:
HappySqurriel said:

I don't disagree that when well done a complicated story can be great ... I won't get into it too much, but I have always felt that the "Great" storytelling in a lot of games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy is far closer to Van Helsing or Transformers than to good literature or movies.


I agree there. I have yet to play a game that rivals a good movie. Mostly because of pace. The closest would be GTAIV, if you like movies like Goodfellas, or the the TV show The Sopranos.


I think Mass Effect had some of the best pacing for an open-ended story-driven game. It was just enough to make it somewhat believable while keeping it simple enough to not get in its own way.

The last three hours of that game are what I expect from a story-driven game. It ramps up and keeps going right until the end. 


ME had a great story. But for some reason, it was a great video game story to me. Not the same feel I guess as something a little more gritty and seedy as GTAIV. GTAIV seemed like something that could be turned into a movie, and be successful. ME if turned into a movie, would just feel like a second rate sci-fi channel movie.

It's all opinion though :) 



DOATS1 on 20 May 2008
TheRealMafoo said:
rocketpig said:

It's a rental. If I like it, I'll buy it. What's the deal with MGO? Anyone know? Does it come with MGS4 or is it a separate game that I'll have to purchase? That will weigh pretty heavily on whether I buy it from Gamefly or not.


It comes with MGS, and I was in the beta. Was fun. A very unique online experience.

 


the full mgo games does NOT come with mgs4. only a starter pack with a few maps and features. mgo is a separate game.




Magnific0 on 20 May 2008

^Are they planning to release MGO as a stand-alone game? Not many people know it comes with MGS4... They named it like it's a whole game in itself, so I wonder if they did it so they can marketed individually.



billy07 on 20 May 2008

No. The 5 maps come with the game. The rest will be downloadable til Novemember. Rumor has it (and pretty solid rumor at that) that in Nov they will release a separate MGO disc that will contain all of the maps (starter and downloadable) at full price.