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RJTM1991 said:
tsogud said:

Do you personally care about gay people? Do you care about transgender people? What about POC? Poor people? The disabled? Do you care about the income and wealth inequality problem we have? Do you care about achieving gender equality? Do you care about any of the issues you get mad at liberals for "pretending" to care about?

Also how do you personally define "liberal" and "conservative"? Is it just social issues for you or is it economic? Also who are you talking about when you say "liberals" and "conservatives"? Are you talking about average American citizens who are liberal/conservative or establishment Democrats and Republicans and corporatists who are only concerned with money and power?

I'd like to know.

I care about people, my man. I don't give a shit about colour, sexuality, or gender. Never have. There's a lot more to people than that. Character is the most important thing. Pigeon-holing people based on the way that they were born does nothing but hold them back.

One of the kindest people I know is gay, Jamie. He doesn't like gay pride parades and hates the "obnoxious stereotypes that homophobes expect to see walking down the street." On gay pride, he hates "seeing gays in BDSM gear waving dildos around when there's kids in the crowd." He believes that gays should use pride events to educate and show naysayers that being gay is normal rather than treat it as a "glorified drag race."

With transgender people, I've got all the time in the world for them. If statistics are to be believed, then it's a very unhappy community. A 40% suicide rate and the majority of those who've made the transition regret it. It's heartbreaking. Seeing the in-crowd on Twitter with their preferred pronouns who've turned the struggle of transgender people into a meme must-have for their social media bios... is just... I don't know what to say.

That's just my opinion though.

Like Malcolm X, I'm deeply suspicious of people who have to take center stage on issues that don't concern them. Rather than letting people speak for themselves, they hog the limelight. It's one thing to raise awareness, it's another to hijack and self-promote. You know, like celebrities and politicians do.

With disabled people, I've been a carer for eleven years. Seen some truly tragic stuff. The fact that these people have to fight tooth and nail for benefits is nothing short of fucking wrong. And the worst part? Neither Conservatives or Liberals give a fuck about them. Both sides are ignorant to the people on the bottom.

On gender equality, I believe that if a man and woman are on the same level then they should be paid equally. For example, male and female surgeons should be paid exactly the same. Should a male staff nurse be paid more than a female surgeon? Absolutely not. Should a female staff nurse be paid more than a male surgeon? Absolutely not. Fuck all that. Again, same level of skill and knowledge, same amount of money. But if you're on about how men earn more than women as a whole, it's because men do more than women. Sewer workers, construction workers, plumbers, electricians, and so on are all high-paying jobs and overwhelmingly male dominated. I mean, shit, they're called "manhole" covers in the streets for a reason. It's not that women can't do those jobs, it's that they choose not to. 

@bolded then your friend is a very judgemental person who needs to sort out their internalized homophobia before spreading their toxic views. Queer people can be bigoted too.

@italic I'm trans please don't speak on mine or my communities behalf please. We have our own issues we need to work out.

The next paragraph is funny considering you basically just did it, with your first two responses.

I feel your anger is warranted but VERY MUCH misplaced, you seem to be more concerned with shitting on regular people who happen to be a liberal or conservative without offering up much it terms of policies you would support to help those you say you care about. Your anger should be directed specifically and ONLY to those in power. Both the establishment Democrats and Republicans are really two sides of the same coin, they put profit over people and have fooled millions in the process into believing that it's each other that are the problem rather than them. The elites have hijacked our democracy, are currently destroying our planet, letting people die bc lack of healthcare, housing, food etc. and all you're concerned about is superficial garbage.

Put your anger to good use and vote the corporatists out, and if you really care about the things you say you care about you'd vote Democrat (specifically Bernie Sanders) when it comes time to. Anything less and you're just being a hypocrite tbh.



 

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tsogud said:
RJTM1991 said:

I care about people, my man. I don't give a shit about colour, sexuality, or gender. Never have. There's a lot more to people than that. Character is the most important thing. Pigeon-holing people based on the way that they were born does nothing but hold them back.

One of the kindest people I know is gay, Jamie. He doesn't like gay pride parades and hates the "obnoxious stereotypes that homophobes expect to see walking down the street." On gay pride, he hates "seeing gays in BDSM gear waving dildos around when there's kids in the crowd." He believes that gays should use pride events to educate and show naysayers that being gay is normal rather than treat it as a "glorified drag race."

With transgender people, I've got all the time in the world for them. If statistics are to be believed, then it's a very unhappy community. A 40% suicide rate and the majority of those who've made the transition regret it. It's heartbreaking. Seeing the in-crowd on Twitter with their preferred pronouns who've turned the struggle of transgender people into a meme must-have for their social media bios... is just... I don't know what to say.

That's just my opinion though.

Like Malcolm X, I'm deeply suspicious of people who have to take center stage on issues that don't concern them. Rather than letting people speak for themselves, they hog the limelight. It's one thing to raise awareness, it's another to hijack and self-promote. You know, like celebrities and politicians do.

With disabled people, I've been a carer for eleven years. Seen some truly tragic stuff. The fact that these people have to fight tooth and nail for benefits is nothing short of fucking wrong. And the worst part? Neither Conservatives or Liberals give a fuck about them. Both sides are ignorant to the people on the bottom.

On gender equality, I believe that if a man and woman are on the same level then they should be paid equally. For example, male and female surgeons should be paid exactly the same. Should a male staff nurse be paid more than a female surgeon? Absolutely not. Should a female staff nurse be paid more than a male surgeon? Absolutely not. Fuck all that. Again, same level of skill and knowledge, same amount of money. But if you're on about how men earn more than women as a whole, it's because men do more than women. Sewer workers, construction workers, plumbers, electricians, and so on are all high-paying jobs and overwhelmingly male dominated. I mean, shit, they're called "manhole" covers in the streets for a reason. It's not that women can't do those jobs, it's that they choose not to. 

@bolded then your friend is a very judgemental person who needs to sort out their internalized homophobia before spreading their toxic views. Queer people can be bigoted too.

@italic I'm trans please don't speak on mine or my communities behalf please. We have our own issues we need to work out.

The next paragraph is funny considering you basically just did it, with your first two responses.

I feel your anger is warranted but VERY MUCH misplaced, you seem to be more concerned with shitting on regular people who happen to be a liberal or conservative without offering up much it terms of policies you would support to help those you say you care about. Your anger should be directed specifically and ONLY to those in power. Both the establishment Democrats and Republicans are really two sides of the same coin, they put profit over people and have fooled millions in the process into believing that it's each other that are the problem rather than them. The elites have hijacked our democracy, are currently destroying our planet, letting people die bc lack of healthcare, housing, food etc. and all you're concerned about is superficial garbage.

Put your anger to good use and vote the corporatists out, and if you really care about the things you say you care about you'd vote Democrat (specifically Bernie Sanders) when it comes time to. Anything less and you're just being a hypocrite tbh.

No. Jamie lives in the real world and wants gays to stop being seen as a RuPaul's Drag Race act. The ultra-camp stereotype has to die before the community can progress. Be yourself, don't conform. His sexuality doesn't define him as a person.

Also, if you don't want me to talk about transgender people, then why did you ask me if I cared about them?

>The next paragraph is funny considering you basically just did it, with your first two responses.

Well, no. I didn't. Again, there's a difference between raising awareness and self-promoting.

Misplaced? Superficial garbage? Please tell me what's superficial about all this.

And Bernie. Fucking Bernie. A weak, spineless wimp who doesn't stand up for himself. A Champagne Socialist with two massive homes who's been in the system for decades. A multi-millionaire hypocrite who campaigns about raising the minimum wage but doesn't even pay his own staff $15 an hour.



SpokenTruth said:
RJTM1991 said:

A Champagne Socialist with 1). two massive homes who's been in the system for decades. 2). A multi-millionaire hypocrite who campaigns about raising the minimum wage but 3). doesn't even pay his own staff $15 an hour.

1). 3 homes actually.  1 is his primary residence which he bought long ago with his senatorial salary (which he's voted against increases for every single time it comes up). The second was part of his book deal.  Instead of all cash, it was partly cash and the house.  The 3rd home is a small residence in DC near his Senate office.

2). Only recently a millionaire because of his books.  But think about that...he became a millionaire and still wants to tax himself at a greater rate. 

3). Yes he does.  He helped them set up their own union within his own campaign and they pushed wages even higher than $15 per hour.

I swear we had this very same conversation not too long ago.  I provided you links to everything and you are still spouting this nonsense. 

1. Typical Champagne Socialist.

2. Still a millionaire.

3. No he doesn't.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evye3j/bernie-reportedly-doesnt-pay-his-staff-the-dollar15-minimum-wage-hes-so-into

He was negotiating only after staff went public.



SpokenTruth said:
RJTM1991 said:

A Champagne Socialist with 1). two massive homes who's been in the system for decades. 2). A multi-millionaire hypocrite who campaigns about raising the minimum wage but 3). doesn't even pay his own staff $15 an hour.

1). 3 homes actually.  1 is his primary residence which he bought long ago with his senatorial salary (which he's voted against increases for every single time it comes up). The second was part of his book deal.  Instead of all cash, it was partly cash and the house.  The 3rd home is a small residence in DC near his Senate office.

2). Only recently a millionaire because of his books.  But think about that...he became a millionaire and still wants to tax himself at a greater rate. 

3). Yes he does.  He helped them set up their own union within his own campaign and they pushed wages even higher than $15 per hour.

I swear we had this very same conversation not too long ago.  I provided you links to everything and you are still spouting this nonsense. 

Always meant to ask, what new sites do you visit? Are you the type who tries to see things from other people's point of view, or do you stick to Liberal biased sites?



SpokenTruth said:
RJTM1991 said:

A Champagne Socialist with 1). two massive homes who's been in the system for decades. 2). A multi-millionaire hypocrite who campaigns about raising the minimum wage but 3). doesn't even pay his own staff $15 an hour.

1). 3 homes actually.  1 is his primary residence which he bought long ago with his senatorial salary (which he's voted against increases for every single time it comes up). The second was part of his book deal.  Instead of all cash, it was partly cash and the house.  The 3rd home is a small residence in DC near his Senate office.

2). Only recently a millionaire because of his books.  But think about that...he became a millionaire and still wants to tax himself at a greater rate. 

3). Yes he does.  He helped them set up their own union within his own campaign and they pushed wages even higher than $15 per hour.

I swear we had this very same conversation not too long ago.  I provided you links to everything and you are still spouting this nonsense. 

I just can't get away with this. How noble of Bernie to vote against a pay increase. I mean, he could've taken his millions and donated them to a cause, set an example, instead, he bought two more houses.

B-but he still wants to tax himself at a greater rate!!

Come on, man.



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RJTM1991 said:
Biggerboat1 said:

You said "I think there's a lot more to people than their skin colour, sexuality and gender. No need to pigeon-hole people."

a) I guess age doesn't make your list of things that shouldn't be discriminated against? Also, what the hell is wrong with someone of any age being on a gaming forum? For a start, much of the discussion isn't actually about games and secondly so what if it was? Aren't we passed the antiquated view that games are just for children? What decade are you living in? Incidentally, I think SpokenTruth is a great contributer to the site. He backs up well-thought out opinions with rational arguments and evidence... And then there are people like yourself...

b) And no need to pigeon-hole - seriously!? Please have a read through your last dozen or so posts on this thread - the hypocrisy is incredible!

He's not a child. He's old enough to know better than to talk down to people. That's what I meant. Calm down.

With age comes maturity. 

Then I guess you need to get a few more years under your belt!

I see as usual, you just respond to the parts that you can think of an evasive answer to...

You also call him condescending then tell me to 'calm down'... Again the hypocrisy is hilarious.



RJTM1991 said:
SpokenTruth said:

1). 3 homes actually.  1 is his primary residence which he bought long ago with his senatorial salary (which he's voted against increases for every single time it comes up). The second was part of his book deal.  Instead of all cash, it was partly cash and the house.  The 3rd home is a small residence in DC near his Senate office.

2). Only recently a millionaire because of his books.  But think about that...he became a millionaire and still wants to tax himself at a greater rate. 

3). Yes he does.  He helped them set up their own union within his own campaign and they pushed wages even higher than $15 per hour.

I swear we had this very same conversation not too long ago.  I provided you links to everything and you are still spouting this nonsense. 

1. Typical Champagne Socialist.

2. Still a millionaire.

3. No he doesn't.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evye3j/bernie-reportedly-doesnt-pay-his-staff-the-dollar15-minimum-wage-hes-so-into

He was negotiating only after staff went public.

That was supposed to be over $15 per hour. But with a fixed monthly amount, if you work more than 40 hours then the amount you gain per hour naturally decreases.

Oh, and he negotiated beforehand already, and that is clearly mentioned in the article you linked. Through his campaign manager, his proposition was $42000 which would have given them about $15.5 if they had $13 with $36000 and the same amount of hours per month. But for the union this wasn't enough and they suggested $46800 instead due to higher healthcare premiums with that salary (which would be a salary of $16.9 per hour, assuming same work hours as before).

At 40 hours per week, $32.5k would have been enough to get you over $15 (assuming 180 hours per month) and $36k would be $16.67 per hour. However, from the 2016 campaign he should have known that they work way more than 40 hours per week, so that's on him.



Biggerboat1 said:
RJTM1991 said:

He's not a child. He's old enough to know better than to talk down to people. That's what I meant. Calm down.

With age comes maturity. 

Then I guess you need to get a few more years under your belt!

I see as usual, you just respond to the parts that you can think of an evasive answer to...

You also call him condescending then tell me to 'calm down'... Again the hypocrisy is hilarious.

Oh, you sure showed me. How can I possibly recover from such a horrific burn? - That's condescending. Telling you to calm down when you're making a mountain out of a molehill isn't.

I answered your question in that one sentence.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
RJTM1991 said:

1. Typical Champagne Socialist.

2. Still a millionaire.

3. No he doesn't.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evye3j/bernie-reportedly-doesnt-pay-his-staff-the-dollar15-minimum-wage-hes-so-into

He was negotiating only after staff went public.

That was supposed to be over $15 per hour. But with a fixed monthly amount, if you work more than 40 hours then the amount you gain per hour naturally decreases.

Oh, and he negotiated beforehand already, and that is clearly mentioned in the article you linked. Through his campaign manager, his proposition was $42000 which would have given them about $15.5 if they had $13 with $36000 and the same amount of hours per month. But for the union this wasn't enough and they suggested $46800 instead due to higher healthcare premiums with that salary (which would be a salary of $16.9 per hour, assuming same work hours as before).

At 40 hours per week, $32.5k would have been enough to get you over $15 (assuming 180 hours per month) and $36k would be $16.67 per hour. However, from the 2016 campaign he should have known that they work way more than 40 hours per week, so that's on him.

Well, I stand corrected. I was wrong there.

Still don't understand why he needs three homes though. Again, if he wanted to set an example and truly open people's eyes, then he should've donated his money to charity or helped the inner cities. But no, I suppose having three houses is more important.

Reminds me a lot of -



RJTM1991 said:
SpokenTruth said:

1). 3 homes actually.  1 is his primary residence which he bought long ago with his senatorial salary (which he's voted against increases for every single time it comes up). The second was part of his book deal.  Instead of all cash, it was partly cash and the house.  The 3rd home is a small residence in DC near his Senate office.

2). Only recently a millionaire because of his books.  But think about that...he became a millionaire and still wants to tax himself at a greater rate. 

3). Yes he does.  He helped them set up their own union within his own campaign and they pushed wages even higher than $15 per hour.

I swear we had this very same conversation not too long ago.  I provided you links to everything and you are still spouting this nonsense. 

I just can't get away with this. How noble of Bernie to vote against a pay increase. I mean, he could've taken his millions and donated them to a cause, set an example, instead, he bought two more houses.

B-but he still wants to tax himself at a greater rate!!

Come on, man.

You seem to choose to view everything in such a binary way in order to maintain your continual faux outrage.

You can easily poo-poo every single candidate for not being Christ reborn but that attitude doesn't really get you/us anywhere.

Is Bernie perfect? No. Is he better than what the US currently has in the White House. Well, I guess that depends on where you stand policy-wise, but from an integrity stand-point there's no credible way to not have Bernie ahead!

I'm not an expert on US politics but can you point out where Bernie has said that it's against his principles for a person to a) own more than one house or b) to become a millionaire? Because if he hasn't said those things then all you're doing is projecting your simplistic definition of socialsim on to a person who describes himself as a democratic socialist.

He himself says that he is not tied to Marxism or the abolition of capitalism but rather wants a program of extensive social benefits, funded by taxes.

So if you can't provide that evidence, please desist with the straw man arguments.

Can I also ask - where do you align yourself politically? If you made millions of dollars would you give it away?

I guess everyone can choose to tear their hair out over the US political system, but again, where does it get anyone? All we can do is try to nudge the tanker in the right direction by voting for the lesser of 2 evils (if you want to take the cynical view), who knows, maybe enough nudges over enough elections will improve things somewhat...