This is why I'm ignoring you in this thread going forward. You're a joke with no ability or lack of will to think about what you are reading. You are not attempting to fill your curiosity or interest in 'why' someone believes. Your goal is to debate and ridicule. I see no value in debate on this topic. As I stated from the beginning, there is no measurable data to prove or disprove the existence of God. However, it can be interesting to learn why people choose to believe what they believe without the need to prove your belief to them.

RE: You childish poor attempt to debate my sentence... Universities have a religious studies or divinity degrees. It's where you can learn about the world's religions, religious history, etc. It's goal is not to convert or prove the basis of any concept of God. In addition to reading pretty much every core religious text for the main world religions, I kicked off my university career with divinity as my chosen degree until I realized I wanted to actually make money at some point and moved to Computer Science. This very deep and personal drive lasted about a decade (before university and first 2 years) before I was consumed by CS.

Also there is no "we" picking apart my position. I'm not attempting to argue or debate a position. There is only you attempting to win a debate that doesn't exist. This continued behavior of yours is why my first response to you asked why you felt threatened in my belief as evidenced by your position of continued aggression and belligerence in this entire thread. It also comes out in your mention of your personal church experience to my suggestion to someone else to just drop in and check out a UU congregation. Apples and Cheeseburgers man... apples and cheeseburgers.

Uh. Yes I am. Hence why I am asking for the evidence that justify's your position.
I think what you don't understand is that I was a church going theist once, this isn't my first Rodeo.

My goal is most certainly to debate because debate drives discussion forwards.
Ridiculing? Most certainly not, I haven't called anyone a "Joke" yet.

Then that means there is no measurable reason to believe in it.

I agree. But if I believe someone is incorrect... You can bet your ass I will call them out on it, I have always been that way on these forums, don't expect anything less.

No need for name calling.
If you cannot handle a debate, then leave the thread.

I get that, but religion itself is based around the idea of a God existing.
Why would you bother wasting your time studying Religion if the very founding concept of said religion cannot be proven to have a shred of evidence to support it's hypothesis?

Why not just roll the claims that have been found to be accurate into History? At-least then the claims that have evidence will be reflected in an appropriate, concise, constructive  manner with minimal indoctrination.

False.

False.

I live in a "City" with a population of around 14,000. There isn't exactly a large selection of Churches.
With that in mind... They don't deserve my support anyway, I wouldn't even care if tomorrow they were all shut down.

I am of the very strong belief that Church isn't necessary in the modern era and the modern world would be better off without it, they are essentially just an outlet of fake information/news and discrimination.

All I'm seeing here is a whole lot of people using weaponized fallacies and ignorance when they know they are beat.

"You aren't answering my questions!" They say
"Yes, I am. I just did. I said it here."

"You aren't interested in discussion!" They say
"Yes, I am. I've asked plenty of questions and answered yours, you just keep disregarding the evidence because it doesn't line up with what you believe."

"You're being so aggressive! This isn't how you are supposed to have a discussion!" they say
"That's because you're not listening, making things up, levying false accusations, conjuring false claims, and then playing the victim when people call you on it"

Like, I strive to be reasonable when debating people. I like to think that both sides usually have a leg to stand on and some good points, but this thread has been so hilariously lopsided that it's actually triggering my anxiety every time I open the thread because every response (Especially the ones directly to me) are full of so many conjured falsehoods that I feel like I'd waste my entire afternoon dissecting every poorly thought out sentence.

My last response was something similar to that, where I countered every single false claim or fallacy, explaining why it was wrong or misguided, and the first response that person gave me back was "You're not reading my points, you're missing the point." You know, despite the fact that I VERY SPECIFICALLY read every single word he wrote and responded to every claim he made and explained in detail why he was wrong or was misunderstanding how things work.

And this is why I have so little respect for theists. I've never seen a group twist facts and push misinformation with such enthusiasm in my life. I've never seen mental gymnastics as impressive as those practiced by the religious. I've never seen a group so unwilling to let actual facts and reality interfere with what they believe. Their faith is so fragile that they have to defend it with lies and play the victim when people demand they put up or shut up. They cite freedom of religion but are so selective in what tenets they want to follow while misrepresenting what atheism actually is in order to make their case as the victims and that those demanding proof are somehow the villains.

In my time reading this thread, and in the real world for that matter, I've come to learn that reason has no place in the mind of the faithful. I've seen some of the most intelligent people the world has ever known write hundreds of pages of well-thought-out counter-arguments to the concept of religion and I've read hundreds of quotes and I've yet to see any response from the clergy or the faithful that was stronger than "no, you". or some combination of fallacy and misrepresentation in order to play the victim.

If you say there is a god, prove it. If you are making a claim, the onus of proof is on you. In the REAL WORLD, you can't make a claim that's impossible to prove or disprove, then say you win the debate because someone was unable to disprove it and call it proof that your stance is right.

That's why I like that argument about the tea kettle in the kuiper belt. I can claim that there's a kettle among the debris in the kuiper belt, but I can't prove it to be true. However, if I got into an argument with someone and they were unable to DISPROVE that there was a tea kettle in the kuiper belt, how astoundingly arrogant would it be for me to loudly and aggressively claim I'm right and then play a victim when called out on my bullshit. It's a hell of a metaphor but stunningly poignant.

Lack of disproof is not proof.
The onus of proof is on those who made the claim.
Fallacies are not a good way to actually prove yourself right.
Misrepresentation of your opposisition makes you look a fool.

The point I'm trying to make is that, when it comes to religion and spirituality and theism vs atheism, the ball is in the court of the clergy, it's their debate to win and have dont absolutely nothing to score a single point. It's all philosophical points and participation trophies and I'm sick of this joke of a philosophy being upheld under some outdated, archaic concept such as 'freedom of religion'. Belief holds no value beyond what it does for you, personally. Faith has no place in the science classroom or outside of churches, and I'm sick of your non-proof somehow winning over thousands of years of science.

When it comes to abortion there are definitely good points on both sides of the argument.
When it comes to politics there are definitely good points on both sides of the argument.
When it comes to euthanasia and war and so many other things in this world, there are good points on many or all sides.

But with religion, it's literally tens of thousands of years of meticulously cultivated scientific progress vs a bunch of immature brats whining because daddy told them their imaginary friend probably isn't real and that if they want to continue to act like he is then they better get some proof.

And the worst part is: I know that nobody's going to read this, or someone is and they'll put a lengthy response trying to rebuke my every point and my every rant with some bullshit fallacy or 'no you'. I'll read every word they write, but lose all interest halfway through their first point because I will have already found something so profoundly wrong that I'm already thinking up a dozen counterpoints and can't even sort out my thoughts becuase there's too much to counter.

And nobody will be sympathetic to me because even though I'm right, I'm angry and aggressive about it. Nobody will go 'oh, he's right' becuase too many people are too caught up in how rude I'm being by basically calling theists immature fools. It doesn't matter that they ARE immature fools, I'm wrong because I called them that. Sadly, public perception and personality seem to genuinely matter more in these 'debates' than facts or reason.

Which is why this will be my last post in this thread.

You are wrong.

Your arguments are terrible and full of fallacies.

Your beliefs are unfounded.

Your faith is feeble.

You are like a child trying to have a conversation at the big boy table, and the only reason anyone humours you is because it's apparently more important to be nice and open to all religions/ideas than it is to be right.

Good riddance. I long for a day when religion is relegated to the same level of foolish history as greek gods and other mythology where it belongs. a relic of the past with no place in the real world.

haha, yes, the Browns win is all the data anyone should need. That and the fact that Mack went to Bears.

That was uncalled for.  Allow a man to grieve in peace.

I went to a UU service and came out with some kind of mixed feelings.

In general, it seemed like everyone's heart was in the right place.  There was nothing I found like objectionable, and in general it was a nice message.  Basically, "be nice to other people and help them".  And while they used some terms I don't particularly like (spiritual for instance) I didn't feel like it was Christianity in disguise or anything like that.  It felt genuinely open to any kind of belief.  

For me though, the ritual and location were kind of a little off putting.  It may just be because I never really went to church when I was a younger, but a lot of the ritual seemed a bit odd, and maybe a bit overly ummmm... I dunno the word.   Ostentatious?  I could see how it would be really nice for someone who grew up as a church goer and liked the ritual of it, but maybe for whatever reason didn't like the message of their religion.

Ultimately, I felt it was kind of... unnecessary.  Like I said, it's a nice message, but I'm not sure I really need to go out of my way (it's about an hour each way) to hear that message.  I kind of already know that I should be a nice person. I may try it again, or maybe some kind of event outside their weekly sermon.  It is near my favorite ice cream place, which does influence my decision.  So we'll see how it goes.  At any rate, thanks for the recommendation.

A very basic and narrow view on the world. You people are unable to grasp the philosophical aspects behind religion and science, you fail to see the greater picture. You... actually should start learning first about what you advocate and oppose.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

https://youtu.be/FVDJJVoTx7s

Take note of the parts where they say "hypothesis and hypothetical" in your links. Then google the definition for the words.
Science doesn't really delve into philosophical views.

So perhaps before you start criticizing other peoples views, you should try and get a firm footing first.

And... Ignoring the hypothetical reasoning's in your links... It still doesn't prove that a God exists anyway.

You guys have been discussing this for more than a month now. I'm honestly impressed.

Completely agree on the rituals. I'm ok with a lot of it being tossed honestly as I prefer the sermons and open-minded guidance to everyone, especially my children. Its remarkable how much more kids learn from others who are not their parents, even if parents are saying the same thing haha. I do especially like the pro-action of the congregation. We continuously look for ways to push positive political and charitable action. I think many of the congregations put videos of their sermons online too if you're interested in just listening in for anything of interest. Thanks for following up on your experience.