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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is it okay to Pirate games?

Ka-pi96 said:
contestgamer said:

It's digital, you're not stealing anything tangible from anyone. And there's enough good Samaritans out there that are going to buy the games, so you're not really harming developers by pirating so long as most people get squeamish of "stealing" digital products.

It doesn't matter whether it's digital, it's still stealing. And it's actually worse than stealing some other things. People don't need video games, they're a luxury and nobody is entitled to them.

Do you think that stealing is bad, no matter the circumstance?



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Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Do you think that stealing is bad, no matter the circumstance?

Difficult question. Legalling speaking it is, and absolutely should be. Morally though I'd say there's a bit of a grey area when it comes to things needed to survive. As I said earlier in the thread I still don't think it's justifiable, but I do think it's understandable. People still shouldn't do it, and there should still be punishment for those that do, but there should also be sympathy and some degree of leniency depending on the circumstances.

Well, I'm not arguing the legality of it: of course it's going to be illegal when the core principles of modern states is to enforce and maintain property rights and the current order. However, a starving person who steals a loaf of bread being punished is horrible. Now, where does that come in with gaming? Many people around the world are too poor to afford games, so piracy is their only outlet. Now, you say that it is not needed, but people need something cope with life. You yourself say that you ignore most politics because it's too depressing, and you obviously use video games as an outlet to enjoy life, so why should others not be able to because they were born into poverty?



VGPolyglot said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Difficult question. Legalling speaking it is, and absolutely should be. Morally though I'd say there's a bit of a grey area when it comes to things needed to survive. As I said earlier in the thread I still don't think it's justifiable, but I do think it's understandable. People still shouldn't do it, and there should still be punishment for those that do, but there should also be sympathy and some degree of leniency depending on the circumstances.

Well, I'm not arguing the legality of it: of course it's going to be illegal when the core principles of modern states is to enforce and maintain property rights and the current order. However, a starving person who steals a loaf of bread being punished is horrible. Now, where does that come in with gaming? Many people around the world are too poor to afford games, so piracy is their only outlet. Now, you say that it is not needed, but people need something cope with life. You yourself say that you ignore most politics because it's too depressing, and you obviously use video games as an outlet to enjoy life, so why should others not be able to because they were born into poverty?

Why are you stating that like its some sort of self evident fact or something? It's not terrible, it's understandable they would steal and it's equally understandable that they would be punished.



contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, I'm not arguing the legality of it: of course it's going to be illegal when the core principles of modern states is to enforce and maintain property rights and the current order. However, a starving person who steals a loaf of bread being punished is horrible. Now, where does that come in with gaming? Many people around the world are too poor to afford games, so piracy is their only outlet. Now, you say that it is not needed, but people need something cope with life. You yourself say that you ignore most politics because it's too depressing, and you obviously use video games as an outlet to enjoy life, so why should others not be able to because they were born into poverty?

Why are you stating that like its some sort of self evident fact or something? It's not terrible, it's understandable they would steal and it's equally understandable that they would be punished.

It's understandable, yes, but that doesn't exclude it from being terrible.



Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, I'm not arguing the legality of it: of course it's going to be illegal when the core principles of modern states is to enforce and maintain property rights and the current order. However, a starving person who steals a loaf of bread being punished is horrible. Now, where does that come in with gaming? Many people around the world are too poor to afford games, so piracy is their only outlet. Now, you say that it is not needed, but people need something cope with life. You yourself say that you ignore most politics because it's too depressing, and you obviously use video games as an outlet to enjoy life, so why should others not be able to because they were born into poverty?

Doesn't that depend on the punishment? There needs to be some repercussions for their actions, but if part of that process also involves help to get them back on their feet and in a position where they no longer need to steal to survive then how is that horrible?

As for coping with life, people survived thousands of years without video games, so clearly they aren't needed. There's plenty of other things people can do for enjoyment. Besides, I very much doubt that anybody who can afford the equipment (PC, Console, TV etc) for games and the electric to run it can't even afford a single game. When I was a kid Xmas and birthdays would usually be the only time I'd get new games, so I know from first hand experience that people don't need every single game ever to be happy and even if they can only afford 1 game a year or something that's still going to bring them enjoyment (perhaps even moreso than the person that buys everything and hasn't the time to play it all and can't constantly switches from game to game). Plus with the large number of free to play games out there at the moment there's even less reason to pirate anything.

Why even punish them at all though? Why not instead help them get on their feet in the first place? And those aren't the only places to get games, there are many people with cell phones and that is one avenue to get games too. Yes, people don't need video games, but that could also just be reverted exactly around the other way: if video games aren't needed, why does it matter if people pirate them to the point that the companies cease to exist? As video games are not needed anyway it won't matter if more games aren't made.



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Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Why even punish them at all though? Why not instead help them get on their feet in the first place? And those aren't the only places to get games, there are many people with cell phones and that is one avenue to get games too. Yes, people don't need video games, but that could also just be reverted exactly around the other way: if video games aren't needed, why does it matter if people pirate them to the point that the companies cease to exist? As video games are not needed anyway it won't matter if more games aren't made.

Because justice should be the same for all and not based on people's socio-economic background. Surely as a communist that's something you can agree on, no?

As for the rest, if that's the argument you're making then why not take it further and go full on nihilist with it as well? The world doesn't need people, so if people aren't needed why does it matter if they starve and cease to exist? As people are not needed anyway it won't matter if more people aren't made.

It's not like that though, poorer people get off harsher. And no, I don't think that justice should be the same for all, because not everyone has the same needs. And now you're talking about the world not needing people? I wasn't the one that argued video games not being needed in the first place, you were.



Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

It's not like that though, poorer people get off harsher. And no, I don't think that justice should be the same for all, because not everyone has the same needs. And now you're talking about the world not needing people? I wasn't the one that argued video games not being needed in the first place, you were.

Perhaps, but poorer people shouldn't be treated more harshly, it is supposed to be equal.

The answers are the same though, are they not? Why do people live? Not because they need to, but because they want to. Why do games exist? Not because they're needed, but because they're wanted.

OK, then what is your argument? You claimed that video games were unneeded because unlike other essentials they are not necessary, but if you're now claiming that humans live themselves because they want to, and not because they need to, then your own argument from beforehand makes no sense.



contestgamer said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

There's about 15 to 24 games worth getting each year, and not all of them are $60 each. You can get games for $45 brand new from BestBuy. I buy around 22 games a year, play as much as possible and still wind up with a growing backlog. Unless you are going to devote 35+ hours a week to gaming each year you will never be able to play everything that comes out. So your average gamer can get away with buying 10 games a year, and still have a full gaming schedule. So a whopping $450 a year, or $37.5 a month is what it would cost to get more games than you will be able to play. 

If you are willing to wait a few years, games go on sale for insanely cheap prices, both in used markets and on steam. $10 a month is more than enough to keep someone busy gaming from now until the end of time, if you spend your money wisely.

So no, being poor doesn't justify piracy. 

Nobody should have to wait years to play a game they want to play. By then a lot of their friends and peers would have played it and it wouldnt be as fun. even if you're buying $450 a year in games plus $50 for multiplayer, etc, you're spending $2.5-3k over a consoles life cycle, money that can be better spent elsewhere. For some people $500 a year makes a big difference. 

Why not? Do people suddenly have a God given right to immediately consume all new forms of media whether or not they can afford it? Your friends being able to play it before you does not justify theft. Learning to live without things that you can't afford is part of being an adult. Most games don't need multiplayer, and those multiplayer services often come with free games anyway. 

That measily $37.50 a month that it costs to play games can be afforded by...

Quitting Smoking

Using a Condom during sex

Changing your internet speed from the blazingly fast speed to the still fast speed. 

Buying groceries when they are are sale. 

Canceling your cable subscription, and switching to Hulu/Crunchyroll/Netflix/Roku/Sling/Someotherservicethatisn'tnearlyasmuchascable

Asking for a $0.25 cent raise.

Changing your car insurance to Gieco.

Waiting a year later until said games are half the price.

Giving up your daily soda from the gas station. 

Canceling your obscene data package on your phone. 

Buying a $30 ZIA phone, instead of a $1000 Android/iPhone

Accepting 4 hours of overtime once a month from your job. 

PanHandling

Selling the games you already bought, played, and beat on Amazon/Ebay, while they are still worth a lot of money. 

Etc.

Etc.

Etc. 

 



Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

OK, then what is your argument? You claimed that video games were unneeded because unlike other essentials they are not necessary, but if you're now claiming that humans live themselves because they want to, and not because they need to, then your own argument from beforehand makes no sense.

My argument that there's no justification for stealing games as people don't need them and can easily live without them doesn't make sense?

Compared to your "if video games aren't needed, why does it matter if people pirate them to the point that the companies cease to exist? As video games are not needed anyway it won't matter if more games aren't made." argument? Well it matters to those that want them. Just as going around killing a few humans as extra human lives aren't needed anyway would matter to those that wanted to live.

Well, let's put it this way then, since I was purposefully giving an extreme example:

 

1. Piracy exists

2. Video games continue to be made

 

So, what's the deal? People that can't afford games are able to enjoy them and people that buy games and want to continue to have new games to buy do so.



Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, let's put it this way then, since I was purposefully giving an extreme example:

 

1. Piracy exists

2. Video games continue to be made

 

So, what's the deal? People that can't afford games are able to enjoy them and people that buy games and want to continue to have new games to buy do so.

So because society continues to function despite crime existing we should just let criminals do as they please rather than try to minimise/eradicate crime?

It's a "crime" despite the fact that it presents no danger to anyone. And if we're going more philosophical over this I'm going to need to come up with a detailed response that is going to venture fairly deeply into the realm of politics.