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What if Xenoblade X....

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Jumpin said:
Peh said:

I don't know how far they can even connect the universes to Xenogears or Xenosaga. Xenogears belongs to Square Enix and Xenosaga to Namco as far I can find on the net.

Well, they were allowed of using Kos-Mos as a Rare Blade. I don't think they will go deeper than those references until Namco says "Well, fuck it. You can do whatever you want. Re-Release the games on the Switch if Nintendo plays the publisher."

I think it's a little more than just memory. Here's a visual of each ship just prior to their arrivals on the planets:
Xenogears

Xenosaga:

Similar in many ways, they share the same shape, and they both have the Deus weapon at the core.
Where they differ is that Xenogears is clearly a colony ship in the opening cutscene; while the ship in Xenosaga was created in seconds by Yuriev, who was using Abel's power.

In Xenogears - the party explores the ruins of the ship in two segments, first - the tower of Babel which encompassed much of the living space. It housed enough population that they required a monorail to get around on the ship: so probably in the millions. The portion that lies beneath the ocean, where the weapon is housed that had been loaded aboard the ship. The ship is very clearly the ruins of what was shown in the opening cutscene, a colony ship. So I think we can accept that as not a bad memory. We also see a cutscene where Abel makes contact, but this occurs after the ship had crashed. In addition to Fei's memory of Abel making contact with the Zohar, and the formation of the original Elly, The Wave Existence also confirms the story, and confirms that Abel made contact after the descent to the planet. Elly was formed due to Abel's loneliness.

In Xenosaga - the ship is completely devoid of any living quarters and doesn't even seem to have much or anything in the way of technology aside from the ES units (and Yuriev's that looks like the Xenogear). It's a large vessel that looks like the internals of giant Gnosis; it's like internal guts and energy waves.

 

The stories we see of how the ships arrive are different too.

In Xenogears - we see a colony ship traveling through space. The Deus weapon reawakens, and the crew attempt to stop it. The captain self-destructs the ship, and it crashlands on an alien planet. Abel is the only survivor, and he makes contact with the Zohar after the descent (as mentioned above).

In Xenosaga - the ship explodes at the end we see Nephilim transform into Elly and, along with Chaos and Abel, teleport the core of the ship to Lost Jerusalem (Earth).

 

So while I think Xenogears and Xenosaga are following the same general plotline, they are two different stories. Like a retelling of the Xenogears story rather than them actually being in the same universe. Kind of like how Disney's Hercules use the same character as Hercules the Legendary Journies, but they are not really the same universe. I think Takahashi wanted to tell a story from that era, but didn't want to be bogged down and limited by having to remain consistent with Xenogears. Also, Square owns Xenogears; although - I will note, that is not a limitation on them connecting the stories now, with a bit of Nintendo influence - and maybe money - it would be trivial for them to arrange to license anything in either Xenogears or Xenosaga. Essentially, if Nintendo wanted to make/remake a Xenosaga or Xenogears game, they could easily arrange to do it.

Yeah, essentially we are looking at episodes 1: interplanetary war and man's scattering to the stars (also the creation period for Deus a biological and mechanical being, 2: Eldridge's fall to Earth and time of Abel, 5: Resurrection of Deus and Fei's awakening.

While some things in Saga and Blade X have changed since perfect works, there's still a definite connection. Intergalactic war, Earth's "destruction", the Galactic Federation, "Neo Jerusalem" and "New Los Angeles" (or New City of Angels). Certain tech from Xenoblade X could surely be seen as prototypes for tech that appear in both Gears and Saga.



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It can still be related to saga and gears, but so far, we got nothing confirming it. Atm we can't slot it in the same way you can slot in Saga and gears.
I like to think the first blade is the creation of the xeno universe and it's all a time line, just because of that final blade form calling back to Xenogears. But yeah, no clear connection.

Only saga and gears really, as the characters are very similar, besides names and that.



Nem said:
It can still be related to saga and gears, but so far, we got nothing confirming it. Atm we can't slot it in the same way you can slot in Saga and gears.
I like to think the first blade is the creation of the xeno universe and it's all a time line, just because of that final blade form calling back to Xenogears. But yeah, no clear connection.

Only saga and gears really, as the characters are very similar, besides names and that.

Maybe, but no direct time line can place Blade or 2 to Gears and Saga, however X can be placed exactly in episode 1 of perfect works, Saga series takes place around episode 2 of perfect works, and episode 5 is Xenogears.  There's direct historical events that take place that these games hit.



bigtakilla said:
Nem said:
It can still be related to saga and gears, but so far, we got nothing confirming it. Atm we can't slot it in the same way you can slot in Saga and gears.
I like to think the first blade is the creation of the xeno universe and it's all a time line, just because of that final blade form calling back to Xenogears. But yeah, no clear connection.

Only saga and gears really, as the characters are very similar, besides names and that.

Maybe, but no direct time line can place Blade or 2 to Gears and Saga, however X can be placed exactly in episode 1 of perfect works, Saga series takes place around episode 2 of perfect works, and episode 5 is Xenogears.  There's direct historical events that take place that these games hit.

Yes, it's possible, but just speculation at this point. Fingers crossed for an X expansion or sequal that can expand it (and make me buy a switch).



Nem said:
bigtakilla said:

Maybe, but no direct time line can place Blade or 2 to Gears and Saga, however X can be placed exactly in episode 1 of perfect works, Saga series takes place around episode 2 of perfect works, and episode 5 is Xenogears.  There's direct historical events that take place that these games hit.

Yes, it's possible, but just speculation at this point. Fingers crossed for an X expansion or sequal that can expand it (and make me buy a switch).

It would be great. If Deus is in X2, then it would be undeniably officially part of the Xenogears time line.  My fingers are crossed it is, but even without the historical similarities are a little too convenient I'd say.



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Really all that Xenoblade Chronicles X needs to be consistent with Xenogears are two name changes and a date change.
New Jerusalem = New Los Angeles
M24 = Mira
500 years to prepare the exodus from earth = 50 years.

There might be more, I can’t think of any though. There could be a Zohar in Xenoblade Chronicles X that hasn’t entered the plot yet.

The story fits very nicely in the slot of the foundation of New Jerusalem, since New LA at the end of Xenoblade Chronicles X seems very well situated to being the founding city and future capital of a Galactic Empire (assuming they can reopen passage. The imminent threat is gone for a time. But there are other possibilities to consider: Retelling the Xenogears story without the Galactic Empire with the White Whale being Eldridge.

1. Mira is cut off.
2. Most human bodies would be synthetic creations of the Kadamony device
3. While we don’t have an Abel shown, it doesn’t necessarily mean he is absent.

The big missing factor would be the Deus weapon. Takahashi would need to write something new into that slot to be the purpose for a higher dimensional being somehow living on Mira. It might be that the Zohar exists for some non-human project on Mira, maybe a Samar thing - I don’t want to speculate too much, because there’s literally a ton of possibilities. So, a sequel would:

A. Involve the establishment of a Galactic Federation in the near future (a few years to a few hundred years later) or:
B. Take place on Mira thousands of years down the road ina Xenogears-like retelling.

Something that hints toward ‘Option A’ is Xenoblade Chronicles 2 - the multiple Titans are like multiple planets orbiting a central area... it was likely a lot safer to go that direction than planets to get a feel for multiple smaller worlds and how he can keep them toned down in size without it feeling too limited.

If Takahashi is still reading Asimov, particularly the Foundation sequels (or the Robot/Elijah Trilogy) then there’s some very interesting stories to tell. Although Xenosaga was already heavily influenced by Asimov - particularly Foundation.



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I have more to add, on Xenoblade Chronicles 2 now that I am in chapter 8.

The game appears to be another retelling of Xenogears, although focusing on other plot elements than those adopted into the first Xenoblade Chronicles - you have a Grahf character in Malos; who like Grahf summoned ancient technology to destroy much of the world 500 years earlier, even the timelines match up in this case. Jin is another Krelian archetype - much closer this time - a character seeking annihilation due to the pain suffered in the past, and the burden of the knowledge of the truth of the world; also, the death of his love; with Krelian it was Sophia, with Jin it was Lora. Then, of course, there is Zeboim civilization at the bottom of the Cloud sea.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.