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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel-Palestine: Which "solution" do you prefer?

deskpro2k3 said:

I'm not talking about what if, and what have nots and other nonsense that's coming out from you. I clearly gave you information about why the conflict in 1967 happen. You can believe whatever the hell you want, facts, and logic fails you. The word "Crazy" in your name fits you will.

I put a link to facts and you remain blind to that so your so called "information" only works on your anti-semitic friends, sorry.

Here just in case you "conveniently" missed it:

http://history-of-israel.org/history/chronological_presentation31.php



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CrazyGamer2017 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

I'm not talking about what if, and what have nots and other nonsense that's coming out from you. I clearly gave you information about why the conflict in 1967 happen. You can believe whatever the hell you want, facts, and logic fails you. The word "Crazy" in your name fits you will.

I put a link to facts and you remain blind to that so your so called "information" only works on your anti-semitic friends, sorry.

Here just in case you "conveniently" missed it:

http://history-of-israel.org/history/chronological_presentation31.php

 

You're a special kind of person, and don't take that as a compliment.

This "so called information" actually explains what I just said earlier. It's up to you if you choose to live crazy.

http://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/suez-crisis

http://www.history.com/topics/yom-kippur-war

 

And let me make myself clear. Having empathy for people suffering does not make people anti-semitic, nor does it make them anti-israel or whatever. It makes them human.

Last edited by deskpro2k3 - on 17 December 2017

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deskpro2k3 said:

You're a special kind of person, and don't take that as a compliment.

This "so called information" http://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/suez-crisis actually explains what I just said earlier. It's up to you if you choose to live crazy.

And you are a new flavor of dishonest. the Arabs have been attacking Israel LONG before 1956. By 1956 Israel had already fought against the Arabs who only wished to destroy the Jewish nation. The fact you wish to pretend that what happened LONG before 1956 magically does not exist is, like I said, a new flavor of dishonest.

I knew anti-semitic hatred made people blind but that blind, wow. I'd say you really need to read the link I posted but with your level of ignorance and hatred I believe that even if you did read what's in the link, the words would simply not register inside your mind.

And yeah, I guess at this point the game SOTC must feel Jewish to you since I love that game, so yeah my dishonest friend, don't add it, whatever.

EDIT: oh and let me correct one of your assumptions: Defending those monsters who swore (and still do) to destroy every last man, woman and child in Israel is not human it's at best ignorant and at worst, criminally barbaric... Unless you wish to argue that having sympathy for such evil people is human.

Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 17 December 2017

deskpro2k3 said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Yeah right, except it is your palestinian terrorist friends that are the aggressor, unless you will start arguing that their repeated attacks right after Israel was created is UN approved or something. Maybe the genocide they and all their muslim friends from all the Arab states around Israel which they tried to carry out in 1967 and which they failed so miserably that one feels almost pity for them considering how they were pushed back in 6 days only, maybe Israel trying to defend themselves should be considered illegal, I'm sure it would please guys like you which keep on saying how Israel does not follow the UN rules but at the same time conveniently avoid to talk about that failed invasion and genocide.

Your friends tried and failed and honestly, Israel should have hit them way harder, taken half EACH of those countries as punishment. Right after having Israel's existence threatened to be wiped out, the UN and guys like you whining about Israel daring to take those countries, would have been totally secondary, like: We just kicked a failed genocide against us in the balls, so your western complaints about us defending ourselves is the least of our concerns... Well that's what I would have done cause Israel is too soft and democratic which against those terrorists is definitely not the solution as is proven by a conflict that has lasted since 1947 and will probably have no end for generations and generations...

What's next? I can totally see Iran one day carrying out their plan of wiping Israel off the map as they clearly said they would, or at least trying and the second Israel kicks their asses, you (and a few others in this thread) would whine about how Israel is aggressive towards Iran...

So allow me to doubt your happiness about Israel's success, cause it looks like, I don't know, Hitler's happiness if he was alive and saw the Jewish state standing up strong and very much alive.

 

You're starting to sound like a Zionist sympathizer.

Ethnic cleansing is not self-defense. Having empathy for people suffering in gaza does not make people anti-semitic, nor does it make them anti-israel. It makes them human.

You don't even know what happen way before 1947.. They were all living peacefully, the Christians, Muslims, and Jews until Zionist moved in and started with their terrorist attacks against the Brits.

While I don't care for his tone and am uncomfortable with automatically labeling anti-Israel propaganda anti-Semitic, on the facts he's closer to getting it right.  Jews, Christians and Arabs were not 'living peacefully' and then one day the Zionists just decided to attack the British.  The early Zionists were rather hopelessly naiive and thought the Arabs would welcome them with open arms if they made their lives better, and in the teens and 20s certain Arab leaders had that exact reaction.  But the British appointed Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini, began instigating anti-Jewish pogroms and massacres in 1920, including the 1929 Hebron massacre in which the 3,000 year old Jewish community was destroyed.  He also embarked on a campaign of murder against his rivals for the leadership of the Arabs in Palestine, killing off many of the moderate leaders who were more sympathetic to Zionism.  It was in response to the attacks on Jews instigated by the Mufti that the large Zionist militias began to form in the 20s and 30s, including the Haganah and the Irgun.  In addition, Arab terrorism against British rule predated the Zionist terrorism, and the Hagannah and the British fought together to an extent during the Arab revolt of 1936-1939.  The Zionist revolt against the British started in response to the British White Paper of 1939, which cut the Jews of Europe off at the moment they most needed a place to escape the genocide that was starting in Europe.

http://www.thetower.org/article/how-the-mufti-of-jerusalem-created-the-permanent-problem-of-palestinian-violence/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine

Many of the accusations against Israel are flat out false.  A case can be made for there having been ethnic cleansing in 1948, when the new state was invaded by many armies and struggling for its survival.  There were towns and villages which were expelled over the course of the war.  There were still over 100,000 Arabs in the Jewish-controlled territory after the war was finished.  At the same time, every Jew was cleansed from the territory Jordan and Egypt conquered.  And the Arab states responded to their defeat by kicking out even more Jews than had fled during the 1948 war, creating yet another refugee crisis.  Since then there really has been nothing that could constitute ethnic cleansing.  The Palestinian population has grown by leaps and bounds, and there has been a distinct lack of forced deportations.

Gaza is an interesting case, as its problems are more self-inflicted because of Hamas misrule, and even then it could be far worse.  Gaza has received an extraordinary amount of aid, but Hamas has diverted the bulk of it to procuring more rockets and building underground tunnels into Israel.  This year Hamas was finally forced to divert some of its military budget to regular government work because the Palestinian Authority decided to stop paying to do what Hamas refused to do in Gaza, and that is why Hamas agreed to a reconciliation deal a few months back, although it looks like that deal could fall through again.  Egypt also maintains a partial blockade of Gaza, and somehow avoids any criticism when it could have easily made Israel's blockade worthless by not going along with it.  And even with all that, somehow the humanitarian situation in Gaza manages to be better than in many of the surrounding countries in Many areas.  Infant mortality is far lower in Gaza than in Turkey or Iran, and life expectancy is higher as well.  And that's when compared to 2 of the greatest regional powers, not war-torn Syria or Yemen.  It's not like the situation is good, but relative to elsewhere in the Middle East it does weirdly well.  It goes to show just how bad things are in the Middle East in general.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/06/gaza-un-aid-hamas

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Israel-Hamas-stealing-95-percent-of-civilian-cement-transferred-into-Gaza-454999

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/haggai-carmon/perhaps-gaza-should-send_b_636903.html

The whole situation is weird, with Israel supplying humanitarian aid, water, and electricity to a territory ruled by an organization openly at war with it and openly committed to its destruction.  I am not aware of any other instance that happening in human history, where a country actively provides aid to its enemy while still technically at war.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

You're a special kind of person, and don't take that as a compliment.

This "so called information" http://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/suez-crisis actually explains what I just said earlier. It's up to you if you choose to live crazy.

And you are a new flavor of dishonest. the Arabs have been attacking Israel LONG before 1956. By 1956 Israel had already fought against the Arabs who only wished to destroy the Jewish nation. The fact you wish to pretend that what happened LONG before 1956 magically does not exist is, like I said, a new flavor of dishonest.

I knew anti-semitic hatred made people blind but that blind, wow. I'd say you really need to read the link I posted but with your level of ignorance and hatred I believe that even if you did read what's in the link, the words would simply not register inside your mind.

And yeah, I guess at this point the game SOTC must feel Jewish to you since I love that game, so yeah my dishonest friend, don't add it, whatever.

 

So you conveniently forget about the centuries of peaceful relations, and since you tie yourself with Zionist, it should be shocking to you that not all Jews believe in that.

Let me remind you in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews. They were all living peacefully.



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h2ohno said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

You're starting to sound like a Zionist sympathizer.

Ethnic cleansing is not self-defense. Having empathy for people suffering in gaza does not make people anti-semitic, nor does it make them anti-israel. It makes them human.

You don't even know what happen way before 1947.. They were all living peacefully, the Christians, Muslims, and Jews until Zionist moved in and started with their terrorist attacks against the Brits.

While I don't care for his tone and am uncomfortable with automatically labeling anti-Israel propaganda anti-Semitic, on the facts he's closer to getting it right.  Jews, Christians and Arabs were not 'living peacefully' and then one day the Zionists just decided to attack the British.  The early Zionists were rather hopelessly naiive and thought the Arabs would welcome them with open arms if they made their lives better, and in the teens and 20s certain Arab leaders had that exact reaction.  But the British appointed Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini, began instigating anti-Jewish pogroms and massacres in 1920, including the 1929 Hebron massacre in which the 3,000 year old Jewish community was destroyed.  He also embarked on a campaign of murder against his rivals for the leadership of the Arabs in Palestine, killing off many of the moderate leaders who were more sympathetic to Zionism.  It was in response to the attacks on Jews instigated by the Mufti that the large Zionist militias began to form in the 20s and 30s, including the Haganah and the Irgun.  In addition, Arab terrorism against British rule predated the Zionist terrorism, and the Hagannah and the British fought together to an extent during the Arab revolt of 1936-1939.  The Zionist revolt against the British started in response to the British White Paper of 1939, which cut the Jews of Europe off at the moment they most needed a place to escape the genocide that was starting in Europe.

http://www.thetower.org/article/how-the-mufti-of-jerusalem-created-the-permanent-problem-of-palestinian-violence/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine

Many of the accusations against Israel are flat out false.  A case can be made for there having been ethnic cleansing in 1948, when the new state was invaded by many armies and struggling for its survival.  There were towns and villages which were expelled over the course of the war.  There were still over 100,000 Arabs in the Jewish-controlled territory after the war was finished.  At the same time, every Jew was cleansed from the territory Jordan and Egypt conquered.  And the Arab states responded to their defeat by kicking out even more Jews than had fled during the 1948 war, creating yet another refugee crisis.  Since then there really has been nothing that could constitute ethnic cleansing.  The Palestinian population has grown by leaps and bounds, and there has been a distinct lack of forced deportations.

Gaza is an interesting case, as its problems are more self-inflicted because of Hamas misrule, and even then it could be far worse.  Gaza has received an extraordinary amount of aid, but Hamas has diverted the bulk of it to procuring more rockets and building underground tunnels into Israel.  This year Hamas was finally forced to divert some of its military budget to regular government work because the Palestinian Authority decided to stop paying to do what Hamas refused to do in Gaza, and that is why Hamas agreed to a reconciliation deal a few months back, although it looks like that deal could fall through again.  Egypt also maintains a partial blockade of Gaza, and somehow avoids any criticism when it could have easily made Israel's blockade worthless by not going along with it.  And even with all that, somehow the humanitarian situation in Gaza manages to be better than in many of the surrounding countries in Many areas.  Infant mortality is far lower in Gaza than in Turkey or Iran, and life expectancy is higher as well.  And that's when compared to 2 of the greatest regional powers, not war-torn Syria or Yemen.  It's not like the situation is good, but relative to elsewhere in the Middle East it does weirdly well.  It goes to show just how bad things are in the Middle East in general.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/06/gaza-un-aid-hamas

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Israel-Hamas-stealing-95-percent-of-civilian-cement-transferred-into-Gaza-454999

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/haggai-carmon/perhaps-gaza-should-send_b_636903.html

The whole situation is weird, with Israel supplying humanitarian aid, water, and electricity to a territory ruled by an organization openly at war with it and openly committed to its destruction.  I am not aware of any other instance that happening in human history, where a country actively provides aid to its enemy while still technically at war.

 

All that after the Ottoman control of Palestine. Of course I would say leave it to the Brits to mess things up? Yeah nah, that's not a good of enough excuse.. I see bad doings on both sides. Your point noted.



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deskpro2k3 said:

So you conveniently forget about the centuries of peaceful relations, and since you tie yourself with Zionist, it should be shocking to you that not all Jews believe in that.

Let me remind you in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews. They were all living peacefully.

How Ironic that you keep spreading pro-palestinian BS and so called Arab good intentions not only after the link I added, explaining events since 1947 but ALSO with the very post above yours by H2OHNO commenting on our little argument. You should read it though I suspect you will be as blind to that as you are to anything I said.

Although I may have succeeded in forcing a tiny little bit of facts in your head since you are now backing off and arguing about 1914 instead of the lost cause of 1947, 1956 and 1967 cause defending the Arabs in regards to those years does not work so yeah, nice try going back to 1914. Sadly the post just above yours by H2OHNO is not going to make you happy if you care to read it...



CrazyGamer2017 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

So you conveniently forget about the centuries of peaceful relations, and since you tie yourself with Zionist, it should be shocking to you that not all Jews believe in that.

Let me remind you in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews. They were all living peacefully.

How Ironic that you keep spreading pro-palestinian BS and so called Arab good intentions not only after the link I added, explaining events since 1947 but ALSO with the very post above yours by H2OHNO commenting on our little argument. You should read it though I suspect you will be as blind to that as you are to anything I said.

Although I may have succeeded in forcing a tiny little bit of facts in your head since you are now backing off and arguing about 1914 instead of the lost cause of 1947, 1956 and 1967 cause defending the Arabs in regards to those years does not work so yeah, nice try going back to 1914. Sadly the post just above yours by H2OHNO is not going to make you happy if you care to read it...

 

How ironic? Calling factual events BS? What part of these do you not understand about the causes of those conflict? It's okay to say you don't know, I'm just telling you what's what.

"If you care to read it..."

http://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/suez-crisis

http://www.history.com/topics/yom-kippur-war

Last edited by deskpro2k3 - on 17 December 2017

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GPU: MSI 4090 SUPRIM X 24G
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SSD: Kingston FURY Renegade 4TB
Gaming Console: PLAYSTATION 5
deskpro2k3 said:
h2ohno said:

While I don't care for his tone and am uncomfortable with automatically labeling anti-Israel propaganda anti-Semitic, on the facts he's closer to getting it right.  Jews, Christians and Arabs were not 'living peacefully' and then one day the Zionists just decided to attack the British.  The early Zionists were rather hopelessly naiive and thought the Arabs would welcome them with open arms if they made their lives better, and in the teens and 20s certain Arab leaders had that exact reaction.  But the British appointed Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini, began instigating anti-Jewish pogroms and massacres in 1920, including the 1929 Hebron massacre in which the 3,000 year old Jewish community was destroyed.  He also embarked on a campaign of murder against his rivals for the leadership of the Arabs in Palestine, killing off many of the moderate leaders who were more sympathetic to Zionism.  It was in response to the attacks on Jews instigated by the Mufti that the large Zionist militias began to form in the 20s and 30s, including the Haganah and the Irgun.  In addition, Arab terrorism against British rule predated the Zionist terrorism, and the Hagannah and the British fought together to an extent during the Arab revolt of 1936-1939.  The Zionist revolt against the British started in response to the British White Paper of 1939, which cut the Jews of Europe off at the moment they most needed a place to escape the genocide that was starting in Europe.

http://www.thetower.org/article/how-the-mufti-of-jerusalem-created-the-permanent-problem-of-palestinian-violence/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine

Many of the accusations against Israel are flat out false.  A case can be made for there having been ethnic cleansing in 1948, when the new state was invaded by many armies and struggling for its survival.  There were towns and villages which were expelled over the course of the war.  There were still over 100,000 Arabs in the Jewish-controlled territory after the war was finished.  At the same time, every Jew was cleansed from the territory Jordan and Egypt conquered.  And the Arab states responded to their defeat by kicking out even more Jews than had fled during the 1948 war, creating yet another refugee crisis.  Since then there really has been nothing that could constitute ethnic cleansing.  The Palestinian population has grown by leaps and bounds, and there has been a distinct lack of forced deportations.

Gaza is an interesting case, as its problems are more self-inflicted because of Hamas misrule, and even then it could be far worse.  Gaza has received an extraordinary amount of aid, but Hamas has diverted the bulk of it to procuring more rockets and building underground tunnels into Israel.  This year Hamas was finally forced to divert some of its military budget to regular government work because the Palestinian Authority decided to stop paying to do what Hamas refused to do in Gaza, and that is why Hamas agreed to a reconciliation deal a few months back, although it looks like that deal could fall through again.  Egypt also maintains a partial blockade of Gaza, and somehow avoids any criticism when it could have easily made Israel's blockade worthless by not going along with it.  And even with all that, somehow the humanitarian situation in Gaza manages to be better than in many of the surrounding countries in Many areas.  Infant mortality is far lower in Gaza than in Turkey or Iran, and life expectancy is higher as well.  And that's when compared to 2 of the greatest regional powers, not war-torn Syria or Yemen.  It's not like the situation is good, but relative to elsewhere in the Middle East it does weirdly well.  It goes to show just how bad things are in the Middle East in general.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/06/gaza-un-aid-hamas

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Israel-Hamas-stealing-95-percent-of-civilian-cement-transferred-into-Gaza-454999

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/haggai-carmon/perhaps-gaza-should-send_b_636903.html

The whole situation is weird, with Israel supplying humanitarian aid, water, and electricity to a territory ruled by an organization openly at war with it and openly committed to its destruction.  I am not aware of any other instance that happening in human history, where a country actively provides aid to its enemy while still technically at war.

 

All that after the Ottoman control of Palestine. Of course I would say leave it to the Brits to mess things up? Yeah nah, that's not a good of enough excuse.. I see bad doings on both sides. Your point noted.

Not entirely.  It wasn't all hunky dory at any point in history, and there were even wars fought in the land in the 1800s.  But Al-Husseini is really the one who started the conflict.  If the British had simply appointed someone else as the Mufti there'd probably have been a lot less death in the region and around the world.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian%E2%80%93Ottoman_War_(1839%E2%80%9341)

As a very ironic aside, Egypt conquered Syria, which Israel/Palestine was considered a part of at the time, in the 1830s, and it was the British who reconquered the land and gave it back to the Ottomans in 1840.



deskpro2k3 said:

How ironic? Calling factual events BS? What part of these do you not understand about the causes of those conflict? It's okay to say you don't know, I'm just telling you what's what.

"If you care to read it..."

http://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/suez-crisis

http://www.history.com/topics/yom-kippur-war

the FACT is the Arabs (including Iran) wish to wipe Israel off the map and kill every last one of them and it's obvious that no matter how many times I keep repeating this, you will simply keep ignoring it so keeping this in mind, you speaking of facts, heck I would even say you just USING the word "fact" is downright insulting to the meaning behind that word.

So here is what's going to happen: You will keep ignoring facts no matter what cause you have some kind of issue with Jews or Israel or something around that and you will keep idolizing Arabs or Palestinians only or both, I don't know and I don't care. So I'm done with you, not cause arguing bothers me but cause repeating myself is annoying in the long run and pointless. You wish to ignore something as serious as the Arabs wishing to commit genocide so beyond that, every other consideration is just empty rhetoric at best.

Don't worry the main point has been made clear, you are pro-palestinian or pro-Arab or pro-muslim and I am pro-Israel. I don't pretend to know the future but I think it's safe to say that we are not going to agree on much so if you don't mind, I'm calling it a day with you, on this issue. Other issues I don't mind (assuming you are not so blind in other issues though the SOTC thing suggests that you are) but this one has run its course and I think we can agree on that.