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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Should I get the RX Vega 64 or GTX 1080?

Turkish said:

I can get both for the same price (gtx 1080 will actually be cheaper). Early reports say gaming performance is about the same, but jumping from geforce 600 series will be a yuge jump either way. I'll be putting the gpu in a small itx case, I was seriously considering Vega the last few weeks, but then saw the power draw, 295w vs 1080's 180w. That is awful, I only have a 500w psu, it's a small case with a high end cpu like a 6700k. So now, I'm heavily leaning towards the 1080.

Based on the testing of 25 games by Hardware Unboxed, both directx 11 and 12 (and also vulkan), including some of the older games such as Cyrisis 3, for all resolutions (1080p, 1440p, 2160p). Much of the difference is due to frames way over 60. Though technically true, hardly anybody can sense the difference between a smooth 60 fps and 90 fps performance. So I made a two way comparison, one "technical", and the other  "perceived" difference where I cap the average and minimum resolutions at 60 fps.

1) Vega 56 is technically 1% faster than 1070 and 14% slower than 1080.

2) Vega 56 is perceived to be equal to 1070 and only 5% slower than 1080.

It makes no more perceived difference than 5% to choose 1080 over 1070 / Vega 56 unless you like technical masturbation. So any rational person should choose the cheaper option here for gaming only. Given that, Vega 64 is definitely faster than Vega 56 and must be at the same ballpark as 1080. If you have to choose one of them,

* 1080 is more efficient
* Vega 64 has more features

Also yes, Vega 64 will probably end up being faster after several years of optimizations and market trends but it will cost you with efficiency and the differences will be barely perceivable. I would suggest buying a VEGA 56 instead. Although 1070 is equally as good today, Vega 56 will get faster, is more future proof, has more features.

Preferences based on price, performance, features, trends
Between Vega 56 and 1070 => Vega 56
Between Vega 64 and 1080 => 1080
Between Vega 56 and 1080 => Vega 56 (overall winner)




Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

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Scisca said:
JEMC said:

He only asked for a GPU advise, so let's not move that discussion into other things like monitors because we don't know if he's also planning to get a new one or even if he cares about faster than 60Hz monitors or things like FreeSync/G-Sync. 

I disagree, this is too important a factor to completely ignore it. Buying a GPU with a monitor in mind gives easily the best result and gamers should always keep it in mind.

But we don't know if Turkish is going to buy a monitor anytime soon, so recomending a videocard because buying a new monitor, but not any monitor, only the ones that have a certain tech inside, will be cheaper is pointless.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
Scisca said:

I disagree, this is too important a factor to completely ignore it. Buying a GPU with a monitor in mind gives easily the best result and gamers should always keep it in mind.

But we don't know if Turkish is going to buy a monitor anytime soon, so recomending a videocard because buying a new monitor, but not any monitor, only the ones that have a certain tech inside, will be cheaper is pointless.

Considering he hasn't mentioned the monitor issue, it is worth pointing it out, since he may simply not be aware that it actually is a big deal I mean, watch this:

https://youtu.be/bIGpvBrwXvA?t=943

The guy puts Liquid Vega + FreeSync monitor over 1080ti with a normal monitor - and I think nobody can disagree. By that token, Vega 64 and even Vega 56 coupled with a FreeSync monitor are superior to a 1080 without a G-Sync monitor. We should spread awareness about it, since this adaptive sync matters much more than extra average 5 fps and buying a monitor that complements our GPU is the way to go.

 

@freedquaker - we share the same thought pattern It's true Vega is in many way head and shoulders above Pascal in terms of new tech solution, in fact we already know that not all bells and whistles are enabled as of yet. Performance is bound to be improved in the future and the cards are much more futureproof - #finewinetech at its best Can't wait to get my non-reference V56



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

JEMC said:
Scisca said:

AMD is much cheaper if you consider the price of the monitor. If you're so serious about gaming that you invest is such an expensive card, you can't justify not buying a FreeSync/G-Sync monitor with a high refresh rate. FreeSync monitors are MUCH cheaper, especially if someone is interested in the extra value packs AMD offers, which includes $200 off of a sweet 34" 1440p Ultrawide Samsung FreeSync monitor (100 Hz I believe). nVidia can't come close to that offer.

 

Also, Ultrawide Masterrace!

 

Still, I'm keeping my hopes up for non-reference Vega 56 shipping with unlocked BIOS, or people creating a solution for this 56 can be a legendary card.

He only asked for a GPU advise, so let's not move that discussion into other things like monitors because we don't know if he's also planning to get a new one or even if he cares about faster than 60Hz monitors or things like FreeSync/G-Sync. 

malistix1985 said:

The performance is slightly in favor of the 1080 but the power usage is LARGELY in favor of the 1080, that counts for $$$ difference if there is one, 1080 is the solid choice

In Vulkan titles Vega 64 is much faster than a 1080, and in DX 12 they trade blows all the time, albeit for the fact that when the 1080 wins, it is by a small margin, and when the Vega 64 wins, it's usually with a bigger lead.

In DX 11 the 1080 is usually faster.

Power consumption is clearly better on Nvidia cards, but that will only matter based on how many hours a week Turkish play, because at idle, where most cards spend their time, the differences are minimal (and that also depends on the rest of the build).

Vulkan is barely supported sadly.

The current reviews should be taken with a fairly large grain of salt in most cases, as the 'FE' 1080 in particular is extremely outdated, AIBs have dramatically faster 1080s on the market, and for less $$ as well (MSRP to MSRP). FEs were craven cash-grabs by Nvidia due to pent-up demand, greed, and lack of competition. But at the end of the day it's comparing May 2016 1080FE to August 2017 Vega 64, and in most games, the 1080FE still wins.

Will AIBs somewhat fix/improve the Vega 64 (or unlock the 56 potential better?) .. well, hopefully. It's pretty rare when AIBs can't improve on pretty basic OG design, for better clocks, noise, temps, etc.

For a buyer right now, today, it's Vega 64 vs 1080 AIB though. 1080 AIB wins 100% of that battle, provided you can even find a 64 to buy.

OTOH, Vega 56 imho is decidedly better than 1070FE, and better than AIB 1070 OC in pure performance levels. If I was in the market for 1070 or 56, I'd still honestly wait for Vega 56 AIBs though. The reviews I've seen have noted across the board that the air cooled 56 and 64 cards are LOUD. You can either set clock speeds down, or fan speeds low and throttle like crazy, or just run full speed and suffer the noise. I had a loud 6970, a really REALLY loud OG 290X, and a loud 580GTX. It sucks. If you play exclusively with headphones or blasting your volume it may not be a big deal. However, temps in excess of 100C have also been noticed on STOCK clocked Vega cards during reviews. Is that going to be safe long term? I honestly don't know, but I wouldn't own a card that ran that hot stock, no way.

So :

No buy : 1070FE/1080FE/1070AIB/Vega 56/64 Launch

Buy : 1080AIB, Vega 56 AIB

That's how I see it anyway, presuming AIB 56s fix the noise/temp concerns (and will almost certainly clock better). Vega 56 is still pretty inefficient, but not so much that a single GPU config isn't totally feasible. Show me an AIB with reasonable temps and noise levels, and it beats 1070 imho.

Mystery : Vega 64 AIB .. will aftermarket designs fix Vega 64 enough to save it? I honestly don't think so, just given the ludicrous power consumption when clocked high enough even to TRY to battle ancient 1080FE, forget about 1080AIB. DOA imho, outside of miners.



Radek said:

According to newest rumours new MSRP for Vega 64 Air is actually $599 not $499... This changes everything..
1080 is just as fast, but quiter and consumes less power... More OC headroom too. Dissapointed by Vega 64 big time.

Point taken for sure, but it gets MUCH worse when you consider that AMD insisted that Vega be compared against 1070 and 1080 FOUNDERS EDITION cards. You know, the cash-grab greedy Nvidia launch models with blower fans from early 2016? The ones with super slow clocks and throttle-heavy performance?

Compare Vega 64 to any reasonable modern 1080 card, and it's just a terrible comparison.

It's unfair perhaps, but to buyers that could find Vega 64 TODAY, your choice is OG 64 vs aftermarket 1080. No sane human being would consider a 1080FE in 2017. Hell, no sane person would consider a 1080FE in fall of 2016.



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1080 is the better buy. better on your electric bill too



amd did a great job with ryzen but came up short with vega



Scisca said:
JEMC said:

But we don't know if Turkish is going to buy a monitor anytime soon, so recomending a videocard because buying a new monitor, but not any monitor, only the ones that have a certain tech inside, will be cheaper is pointless.

Considering he hasn't mentioned the monitor issue, it is worth pointing it out, since he may simply not be aware that it actually is a big deal I mean, watch this:

https://youtu.be/bIGpvBrwXvA?t=943

The guy puts Liquid Vega + FreeSync monitor over 1080ti with a normal monitor - and I think nobody can disagree. By that token, Vega 64 and even Vega 56 coupled with a FreeSync monitor are superior to a 1080 without a G-Sync monitor. We should spread awareness about it, since this adaptive sync matters much more than extra average 5 fps and buying a monitor that complements our GPU is the way to go.

It's a big deal... if you notice it. I game on a 60Hz monitor with relatively high response time of 8ms, and I don't have any trouble playing any kind of game.

Both FreeSync and G-Sync are cool techs that are helpful for some users, but they don't do much for others. 

Arkaign said:
JEMC said:

He only asked for a GPU advise, so let's not move that discussion into other things like monitors because we don't know if he's also planning to get a new one or even if he cares about faster than 60Hz monitors or things like FreeSync/G-Sync. 

In Vulkan titles Vega 64 is much faster than a 1080, and in DX 12 they trade blows all the time, albeit for the fact that when the 1080 wins, it is by a small margin, and when the Vega 64 wins, it's usually with a bigger lead.

In DX 11 the 1080 is usually faster.

Power consumption is clearly better on Nvidia cards, but that will only matter based on how many hours a week Turkish play, because at idle, where most cards spend their time, the differences are minimal (and that also depends on the rest of the build).

Vulkan is barely supported sadly.

The current reviews should be taken with a fairly large grain of salt in most cases, as the 'FE' 1080 in particular is extremely outdated, AIBs have dramatically faster 1080s on the market, and for less $$ as well (MSRP to MSRP). FEs were craven cash-grabs by Nvidia due to pent-up demand, greed, and lack of competition. But at the end of the day it's comparing May 2016 1080FE to August 2017 Vega 64, and in most games, the 1080FE still wins.

Will AIBs somewhat fix/improve the Vega 64 (or unlock the 56 potential better?) .. well, hopefully. It's pretty rare when AIBs can't improve on pretty basic OG design, for better clocks, noise, temps, etc.

For a buyer right now, today, it's Vega 64 vs 1080 AIB though. 1080 AIB wins 100% of that battle, provided you can even find a 64 to buy.

OTOH, Vega 56 imho is decidedly better than 1070FE, and better than AIB 1070 OC in pure performance levels. If I was in the market for 1070 or 56, I'd still honestly wait for Vega 56 AIBs though. The reviews I've seen have noted across the board that the air cooled 56 and 64 cards are LOUD. You can either set clock speeds down, or fan speeds low and throttle like crazy, or just run full speed and suffer the noise. I had a loud 6970, a really REALLY loud OG 290X, and a loud 580GTX. It sucks. If you play exclusively with headphones or blasting your volume it may not be a big deal. However, temps in excess of 100C have also been noticed on STOCK clocked Vega cards during reviews. Is that going to be safe long term? I honestly don't know, but I wouldn't own a card that ran that hot stock, no way.

So :

No buy : 1070FE/1080FE/1070AIB/Vega 56/64 Launch

Buy : 1080AIB, Vega 56 AIB

That's how I see it anyway, presuming AIB 56s fix the noise/temp concerns (and will almost certainly clock better). Vega 56 is still pretty inefficient, but not so much that a single GPU config isn't totally feasible. Show me an AIB with reasonable temps and noise levels, and it beats 1070 imho.

Mystery : Vega 64 AIB .. will aftermarket designs fix Vega 64 enough to save it? I honestly don't think so, just given the ludicrous power consumption when clocked high enough even to TRY to battle ancient 1080FE, forget about 1080AIB. DOA imho, outside of miners.

It's true that Vulkan isn't gaining any traction, sadly.

As for which card to get, I agree that Vega 56 seems to be a much better choice than its bigger brother, and I wholeheartedly agree that Nvidia's Founders Edition cards aren't good choices (unless you need a blower cooler). That said, I disagree with your negative view on the 1070. It's a very competitive card and, if the news about the real Vega pricing is true, it will offer a better price/performance ratio than Vega 56.

So, in my opinion

No buy : 1070FE, 1080FE, Vega 56/64 Launch

Buy : 1080AIB, 1070AIB, Vega 56 AIB



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Imo, buy the 1080. The reason is this. Amd is great at dx12/vulkan games but the 1080 is not far behind if behind at all. But when you do get games that are unoptimized every now and then, Nvidia cards seem to do better than Amd cards and sometimes, Amd cards really take a hit and could take weeks to get patched in.

I love AMD's Ryzen CPU Lineup but man, they really goofed with Vega. Took way too long and when it did come out, you really need a good power supply to power it. Not worth it imo



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

JEMC said:
Scisca said:

Considering he hasn't mentioned the monitor issue, it is worth pointing it out, since he may simply not be aware that it actually is a big deal I mean, watch this:

https://youtu.be/bIGpvBrwXvA?t=943

The guy puts Liquid Vega + FreeSync monitor over 1080ti with a normal monitor - and I think nobody can disagree. By that token, Vega 64 and even Vega 56 coupled with a FreeSync monitor are superior to a 1080 without a G-Sync monitor. We should spread awareness about it, since this adaptive sync matters much more than extra average 5 fps and buying a monitor that complements our GPU is the way to go.

It's a big deal... if you notice it. I game on a 60Hz monitor with relatively high response time of 8ms, and I don't have any trouble playing any kind of game.

Both FreeSync and G-Sync are cool techs that are helpful for some users, but they don't do much for others. 

Arkaign said:

Vulkan is barely supported sadly.

The current reviews should be taken with a fairly large grain of salt in most cases, as the 'FE' 1080 in particular is extremely outdated, AIBs have dramatically faster 1080s on the market, and for less $$ as well (MSRP to MSRP). FEs were craven cash-grabs by Nvidia due to pent-up demand, greed, and lack of competition. But at the end of the day it's comparing May 2016 1080FE to August 2017 Vega 64, and in most games, the 1080FE still wins.

Will AIBs somewhat fix/improve the Vega 64 (or unlock the 56 potential better?) .. well, hopefully. It's pretty rare when AIBs can't improve on pretty basic OG design, for better clocks, noise, temps, etc.

For a buyer right now, today, it's Vega 64 vs 1080 AIB though. 1080 AIB wins 100% of that battle, provided you can even find a 64 to buy.

OTOH, Vega 56 imho is decidedly better than 1070FE, and better than AIB 1070 OC in pure performance levels. If I was in the market for 1070 or 56, I'd still honestly wait for Vega 56 AIBs though. The reviews I've seen have noted across the board that the air cooled 56 and 64 cards are LOUD. You can either set clock speeds down, or fan speeds low and throttle like crazy, or just run full speed and suffer the noise. I had a loud 6970, a really REALLY loud OG 290X, and a loud 580GTX. It sucks. If you play exclusively with headphones or blasting your volume it may not be a big deal. However, temps in excess of 100C have also been noticed on STOCK clocked Vega cards during reviews. Is that going to be safe long term? I honestly don't know, but I wouldn't own a card that ran that hot stock, no way.

So :

No buy : 1070FE/1080FE/1070AIB/Vega 56/64 Launch

Buy : 1080AIB, Vega 56 AIB

That's how I see it anyway, presuming AIB 56s fix the noise/temp concerns (and will almost certainly clock better). Vega 56 is still pretty inefficient, but not so much that a single GPU config isn't totally feasible. Show me an AIB with reasonable temps and noise levels, and it beats 1070 imho.

Mystery : Vega 64 AIB .. will aftermarket designs fix Vega 64 enough to save it? I honestly don't think so, just given the ludicrous power consumption when clocked high enough even to TRY to battle ancient 1080FE, forget about 1080AIB. DOA imho, outside of miners.

It's true that Vulkan isn't gaining any traction, sadly.

As for which card to get, I agree that Vega 56 seems to be a much better choice than its bigger brother, and I wholeheartedly agree that Nvidia's Founders Edition cards aren't good choices (unless you need a blower cooler). That said, I disagree with your negative view on the 1070. It's a very competitive card and, if the news about the real Vega pricing is true, it will offer a better price/performance ratio than Vega 56.

So, in my opinion

No buy : 1070FE, 1080FE, Vega 56/64 Launch

Buy : 1080AIB, 1070AIB, Vega 56 AIB

That sounds reasonable. I don't mean to say 1070AIB is a bad card by any stretch. The noise and thermals would certainly have me choosing 1070, even FE, over 56 as it currently stands. It's just that the price/performance seems to favor 56. Maybe well-overclocked 1070AIB is all around superior, that would be fair given how long 10xx has been out now. It's predictably a solid performer that beasts 1080p, and unless you go insane with settings, plows through 1440p as well. 4k remains elusive, with even elite-level 1080ti models like the Strix not truly strong enough to guarantee solid performance in many titles (albeit dropping some settings can make things pretty damned good in almost any game, with very little hit to actual IQ).

AIB 56 will be interesting for sure. I don't wish any ill will against miners, but it has REALLY hurt the PC gamers with the crazy price inflations, and I think it will actually harm AMD long term. Sure, they're selling basically every x70+ they can make, but how many actually go to gamers these days? I'd be VERY surprised if more than 10% of new 470/480/570/580 cards went to gamers, with the gigantic bulk going to miners. If the mining crashes again (like it did when ASICs busted GPUs for Bitcoin), it will flood the market with (mostly) abused Polaris cards for dirt cheap, which may run into reliability problems and frustrated users either getting warranty replacements (losers : AIB makers), or getting warranty denied (losers : customers). It goes without saying that it would drop prices so heavily that it would be hard to recommend $400+ Vega 56 against $100ish used 580 8GB. $100 sounds extreme, but if hundreds of thousands of GPUs suddenly become worthless for mining, the market will fall out.

Mining has hurt Nvidia as well, but I don't think to the same extreme. 1050ti and 1060 seem very popular with gamers, and are actually pretty widely available, unlike Polaris stuff.