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PS4 Neo presentation leaked

Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 Neo presentation leaked

aLkaLiNE said:
His is outdated information that could or could not be indicative of what the Neo is now.

- this presentation was made before Scorpio announcement
- this presentation was completed before SCEI became SIE
- SCEI became SIE January 26, 2016. Again this presentation is OLD
- other tumors have circulated in the meantime that Sony had been playing with multiple different tiers of power for the Neo. I don't think that, given scorpions announcement, this presentation holds weight now

This is what i think. Maybe the leaked specs "Was" real at one point, but not any more.



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bunchanumbers said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes... PS2 was hiding in the sands in fear of Xbox being a lot more powerfull than it.

The ps2 had the advantage of being a dirt cheap dvd player. Streaming services killed the media advantage playstation had. Even if you factor in 4k bluray, the Xbox 1 S is a cheaper option. Sony's biggest advantage is the time gap between launches.

PS4 had nothing of it and yet sold a lot more... so?

Pemalite said:
Barkley said:

In which case Sony could easily do a price cut on the Neo in response.

Sony might not have made the same deal with AMD+Global Foundries that Microsoft has, meaning their costs might actually be higher.

Microsoft's chip might be smaller and cheaper to manufacture.

Microsoft might be willing to eat some of the costs to shift more units.|

So many maybes, that really, you have no idea if the Neo will be a lower price. ;)

You are surely assuming a lot. So since speculation is useless we can only go for the "real" differences.

If Sony start producing the same tecnology 1 year earlier they will have bigger improvements in cost.

If the power and frequency of the chip is smaller they will have better output rates on the dies.

By being a litle weaker it will drain less power, generate less heat, probably be smaller and cheaper as well (including power supply and cooling system).

 

All you put isn't exactly smaller cost but smaller margins or negative margins, so final price could be small for MS, but cost won't.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
bunchanumbers said:

The ps2 had the advantage of being a dirt cheap dvd player. Streaming services killed the media advantage playstation had. Even if you factor in 4k bluray, the Xbox 1 S is a cheaper option. Sony's biggest advantage is the time gap between launches.

PS4 had nothing of it and yet sold a lot more... so?

Pemalite said:

Sony might not have made the same deal with AMD+Global Foundries that Microsoft has, meaning their costs might actually be higher.

Microsoft's chip might be smaller and cheaper to manufacture.

Microsoft might be willing to eat some of the costs to shift more units.|

So many maybes, that really, you have no idea if the Neo will be a lower price. ;)

You are surely assuming a lot. So since speculation is useless we can only go for the "real" differences.

If Sony start producing the same tecnology 1 year earlier they will have bigger improvements in cost.

If the power and frequency of the chip is smaller they will have better output rates on the dies.

By being a litle weaker it will drain less power, generate less heat, probably be smaller and cheaper as well (including power supply and cooling system).

 

All you put isn't exactly smaller cost but smaller margins or negative margins, so final price could be small for MS, but cost won't.

MS pretty much destroyed themselves with the DRM fiasco and ps4 does have a power advantage. Plus Sony had that brilliant launch advertising campaign. The one with the crowds and the girl who said 'All my friends who are gamers own Playstation.' Followed with Greatness Awaits. It was a masterclass in marketing. I fully expect them to do it again. Its why I said it could be 2 hamsters. Sony has a year and a good marketing team. Neo will sell millions.



bunchanumbers said:
DonFerrari said:

PS4 had nothing of it and yet sold a lot more... so?

You are surely assuming a lot. So since speculation is useless we can only go for the "real" differences.

If Sony start producing the same tecnology 1 year earlier they will have bigger improvements in cost.

If the power and frequency of the chip is smaller they will have better output rates on the dies.

By being a litle weaker it will drain less power, generate less heat, probably be smaller and cheaper as well (including power supply and cooling system).

 

All you put isn't exactly smaller cost but smaller margins or negative margins, so final price could be small for MS, but cost won't.

MS pretty much destroyed themselves with the DRM fiasco and ps4 does have a power advantage. Plus Sony had that brilliant launch advertising campaign. The one with the crowds and the girl who said 'All my friends who are gamers own Playstation.' Followed with Greatness Awaits. It was a masterclass in marketing. I fully expect them to do it again. Its why I said it could be 2 hamsters. Sony has a year and a good marketing team. Neo will sell millions.

Neo had better sell millions otherwise it will look like a flop.

I would like to see Microsoft (And Nintendo!) match Sony in terms of sales, even if it is an uphill battle as competition is good for all consumers.

DonFerrari said:
bunchanumbers said:

The ps2 had the advantage of being a dirt cheap dvd player. Streaming services killed the media advantage playstation had. Even if you factor in 4k bluray, the Xbox 1 S is a cheaper option. Sony's biggest advantage is the time gap between launches.

PS4 had nothing of it and yet sold a lot more... so?

Pemalite said:

Sony might not have made the same deal with AMD+Global Foundries that Microsoft has, meaning their costs might actually be higher.

Microsoft's chip might be smaller and cheaper to manufacture.

Microsoft might be willing to eat some of the costs to shift more units.|

So many maybes, that really, you have no idea if the Neo will be a lower price. ;)

You are surely assuming a lot. So since speculation is useless we can only go for the "real" differences.

If Sony start producing the same tecnology 1 year earlier they will have bigger improvements in cost.

If the power and frequency of the chip is smaller they will have better output rates on the dies.

By being a litle weaker it will drain less power, generate less heat, probably be smaller and cheaper as well (including power supply and cooling system).

 

All you put isn't exactly smaller cost but smaller margins or negative margins, so final price could be small for MS, but cost won't.

I was using the assumptions to hone in on a point. - That no one truly knows where Neo or Scorpio is going to land in terms of performance and price, except AMD as they are the only entity who can see over both sides of the fence.
All we have are rumors, which should always be taken with a grain of salt untill legitimate information comes out from Microsoft/Sony.

We have no information on performance, die sizes, yields, clocks, ram capacities, price, nothing.
For all we know Scorpio is using an extremely small chip but with a super high clock rate which makes it cheaper to produce than the Neo.

One thing we know for certain though is that fabrication is constantly improving.
Sony and Microsoft will likely both be using Global Foundries as that is where the bulk of AMD's deals lay at the moment.
That means whatever AMD and Global foundries learn about fabricating the Neo SoC will also be applied to Scorpio.

Remember, Sony and Microsoft are not allowed to deal with these chips at a low-level only AMD and it's Fab partners, so whatever improvements are made at the fab level tend to apply to everyone.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

bunchanumbers said:
JRPGfan said:

40% differnce between a PS4neo and a XB1Scorpio... destroys?

Still.... PS4neo will be 399$ and most are saying scorpio will be over 500$.

 

When it comes to selling consoles Price is always more important.

Usually the more expensive & powerfull console dont sell more units than the cheaper one.

Yes. destroys. Its a gap that is big enough that Sony is trying to figure out new techniques to hide that its not native 4k. At least according to the document. And who knows? Scorpio could retail for $400. The RX480 shows that power can be cheap.

But what is clear is that Sony needs to take advantage of the gap before Scorpio launches.

Without knowing what the same game would look like on the Scorpio, we can't know what sort of gap such techniques would be pointing too (in general we really don't have enough information to be able to definitively claim one 'destroys' the other). Regardless to if this document is real though, both Sony and MS are likely looking into such things irrespective of power. Not every developer is going to want to spend their budget on 4k, so it's in Sony and MS's best interest to be able to maximise the visual quality of lower resolutions.



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Bandorr said:
aLkaLiNE said:
His is outdated information that could or could not be indicative of what the Neo is now.

- this presentation was made before Scorpio announcement
- this presentation was completed before SCEI became SIE
- SCEI became SIE January 26, 2016. Again this presentation is OLD
- other tumors have circulated in the meantime that Sony had been playing with multiple different tiers of power for the Neo. I don't think that, given scorpions announcement, this presentation holds weight now

I think Sony should see a doctor then. Tumors are nothing to play with :)

I do agree though.

Ugh, grammatical errors. Point still stands though 



Pemalite said:


1. We have no information on performance, die sizes, yields, clocks, ram capacities, price, nothing.
2. For all we know Scorpio is using an extremely small chip but with a super high clock rate which makes it cheaper to produce than the Neo.

ok. Explain how you got from point 1 to point 2. Give sources to point 2 as well.

I really want to know that.



Pemalite said:

I was using the assumptions to hone in on a point. - That no one truly knows where Neo or Scorpio is going to land in terms of performance and price, except AMD as they are the only entity who can see over both sides of the fence.
All we have are rumors, which should always be taken with a grain of salt untill legitimate information comes out from Microsoft/Sony.

We have no information on performance, die sizes, yields, clocks, ram capacities, price, nothing.
For all we know Scorpio is using an extremely small chip but with a super high clock rate which makes it cheaper to produce than the Neo.

One thing we know for certain though is that fabrication is constantly improving.
Sony and Microsoft will likely both be using Global Foundries as that is where the bulk of AMD's deals lay at the moment.
That means whatever AMD and Global foundries learn about fabricating the Neo SoC will also be applied to Scorpio.

Remember, Sony and Microsoft are not allowed to deal with these chips at a low-level only AMD and it's Fab partners, so whatever improvements are made at the fab level tend to apply to everyone.

only if at the end they have more chips that pass the quality check per wafer - "super high clock rate" surely has a significant influence on how many of the chips per wafer are substandard for use in scorpio



aLkaLiNE said:
His is outdated information that could or could not be indicative of what the Neo is now.

- this presentation was made before Scorpio announcement
- this presentation was completed before SCEI became SIE
- SCEI became SIE January 26, 2016. Again this presentation is OLD
- other tumors have circulated in the meantime that Sony had been playing with multiple different tiers of power for the Neo. I don't think that, given scorpions announcement, this presentation holds weight now

Very true.  The rumors I read said they were playing around with two tiers of power.  For all we know, the 4.2 Tflops model could have been the bottom tier, using an underclocked RX480.   The top tier could be using a RX480 that is either at the normal clock, so it gets ~5.5 Tflops or could even be slightly overclocked to get the same 6 Tflops as the Scorpio. 

Of course, the most important point is, even if this is not fake and is the final specs, it won't have any impact on the current gen, which both the Scorpio and Neo are a part of.  The PS4 family will continue to outsell the XBO family by quite a bit.  It also doesn't help the Scorpio that all of the XBO exclusives of the future will be on Windows. 



Sony fans, stop caring about Scorpio beating PS Neo power.

You're just setting yourselves up for potential disappointment.