bunchanumbers said:
DonFerrari said:
PS4 had nothing of it and yet sold a lot more... so?
You are surely assuming a lot. So since speculation is useless we can only go for the "real" differences.
If Sony start producing the same tecnology 1 year earlier they will have bigger improvements in cost.
If the power and frequency of the chip is smaller they will have better output rates on the dies.
By being a litle weaker it will drain less power, generate less heat, probably be smaller and cheaper as well (including power supply and cooling system).
All you put isn't exactly smaller cost but smaller margins or negative margins, so final price could be small for MS, but cost won't.
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MS pretty much destroyed themselves with the DRM fiasco and ps4 does have a power advantage. Plus Sony had that brilliant launch advertising campaign. The one with the crowds and the girl who said 'All my friends who are gamers own Playstation.' Followed with Greatness Awaits. It was a masterclass in marketing. I fully expect them to do it again. Its why I said it could be 2 hamsters. Sony has a year and a good marketing team. Neo will sell millions.
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Power have never been an important factor for the mass market... sw available and price point were much more important so far, ps4 being more powerfull was a coincidence when they also were cheaper and better supported, so I see no reason for sony to hide and fear because of a weak hw.
Pemalite said:
bunchanumbers said:
MS pretty much destroyed themselves with the DRM fiasco and ps4 does have a power advantage. Plus Sony had that brilliant launch advertising campaign. The one with the crowds and the girl who said 'All my friends who are gamers own Playstation.' Followed with Greatness Awaits. It was a masterclass in marketing. I fully expect them to do it again. Its why I said it could be 2 hamsters. Sony has a year and a good marketing team. Neo will sell millions.
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Neo had better sell millions otherwise it will look like a flop.
I would like to see Microsoft (And Nintendo!) match Sony in terms of sales, even if it is an uphill battle as competition is good for all consumers.
DonFerrari said:
PS4 had nothing of it and yet sold a lot more... so?
You are surely assuming a lot. So since speculation is useless we can only go for the "real" differences.
If Sony start producing the same tecnology 1 year earlier they will have bigger improvements in cost.
If the power and frequency of the chip is smaller they will have better output rates on the dies.
By being a litle weaker it will drain less power, generate less heat, probably be smaller and cheaper as well (including power supply and cooling system).
All you put isn't exactly smaller cost but smaller margins or negative margins, so final price could be small for MS, but cost won't.
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I was using the assumptions to hone in on a point. - That no one truly knows where Neo or Scorpio is going to land in terms of performance and price, except AMD as they are the only entity who can see over both sides of the fence.
All we have are rumors, which should always be taken with a grain of salt untill legitimate information comes out from Microsoft/Sony.
We have no information on performance, die sizes, yields, clocks, ram capacities, price, nothing.
For all we know Scorpio is using an extremely small chip but with a super high clock rate which makes it cheaper to produce than the Neo.
One thing we know for certain though is that fabrication is constantly improving.
Sony and Microsoft will likely both be using Global Foundries as that is where the bulk of AMD's deals lay at the moment.
That means whatever AMD and Global foundries learn about fabricating the Neo SoC will also be applied to Scorpio.
Remember, Sony and Microsoft are not allowed to deal with these chips at a low-level only AMD and it's Fab partners, so whatever improvements are made at the fab level tend to apply to everyone.
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It's kinda of pointless to arguee on rumours putting all good points in favor of one side and the other having only negatives. You aren't talking about a big company and a nobody (so that you could apply that only one of them know what they are doing).
We already have the processing capacity and architeture of Scorpio and the rumoured for Neo. If both uses the same architeture and Scorpio is an overclocked version and Neo an undercloked one of the same chip then either one is smaller than the other, or will have more failures to produce and consume more power. So unless you think MS system will run on unicorn rainbow and Sony on pigs fart them you can't seriously give MS smaller chip, higher processing, less consumption, higher die output success and cheaper to produce. It doesn't make sense in any way.
And worse yet you want MS chip to be totally different than Sony and still use improvements on the fabrication process... are you that pushing for a wish situation that MS put something magical when they come from RROD and a oversized console?
no, not all improvements apply to everyone. The chips may be similar, but there will be differences in setup and configuration, so not all improvements will carry over. And considering bulk production and cost of setup if Sony have 1 year lead to production and keep leading after Scorpio release Sony will always have a cheaper production on similar architeture.
I respect your knowledge on computation, but your scenario in this one is so one sided that would only work in the bizarro world and on "it could happen impossible situation".
Lafiel said:
Pemalite said:
I was using the assumptions to hone in on a point. - That no one truly knows where Neo or Scorpio is going to land in terms of performance and price, except AMD as they are the only entity who can see over both sides of the fence.
All we have are rumors, which should always be taken with a grain of salt untill legitimate information comes out from Microsoft/Sony.
We have no information on performance, die sizes, yields, clocks, ram capacities, price, nothing.
For all we know Scorpio is using an extremely small chip but with a super high clock rate which makes it cheaper to produce than the Neo.
One thing we know for certain though is that fabrication is constantly improving.
Sony and Microsoft will likely both be using Global Foundries as that is where the bulk of AMD's deals lay at the moment.
That means whatever AMD and Global foundries learn about fabricating the Neo SoC will also be applied to Scorpio.
Remember, Sony and Microsoft are not allowed to deal with these chips at a low-level only AMD and it's Fab partners, so whatever improvements are made at the fab level tend to apply to everyone.
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only if at the end they have more chips that pass the quality check per wafer - "super high clock rate" surely has a significant influence on how many of the chips per wafer are substandard for use in scorpio
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I think pema is just wanting to point that "anything is possible"
