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EU referendum -UK users

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Leave or remain

Leave 412 53.72%
 
Remain 355 46.28%
 
Total:767

#TeamRemain

Although I don't care too much. I want out of the UK either way so...



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Iyasu said:
Machina said:

This is the most important vote that there's going to be in my lifetime and I will be voting to Leave even if I'm on death's door and have to drag myself to the polling station.

I want my country to be an independent, self-governing, democratic nation again, not tied into ever deeper political, supranational union with other nations.

I want to live in a country that makes all of its own laws and isn't governed by unelected foreign beauraucrats and leaders, that can determine exactly who can or cannot come here to live and work, that can introduce even the most basic of border controls, that can vote in and out those who propose and make all of our laws, that can deport foreign criminals without constantly being hampered, that can spend the money it sends to the EU each year entirely on its own people without it being siphoned off through various corrupt EU level institutions, whose supreme court is truly supreme again and not overruled by European judges from very different legal systems, whose own people cannot be deported to sit and rot in jail cells abroad without even the most basic of evidence first being brought before a British judge, that controls its own fishing waters, that is proud and able to compete on the world market without being wedded to a bloated, protectionist block, and whose government (whether I agree with it or not) is able to implement its manifesto promises without being told that it's impossible because EU laws and regulations proscribe it.

I think Remain will win (for several reasons, from a weak Leave campaign, to Project Fear persuading enough eurosceptics to not take a risk, to the full weight of the government machine being behind Remain), but the ramifications will be such that the question will not be closed and there will be a constant threat of another vote whenever the EU makes its next power grab (which could be fairly soon after the referendum, if the rumours of EU-wide taxation and EU army proposals being held back until after the vote are true).

You need a time machine and go back to 1500 to get that.

Even if the UK leaves, globalisation will still force it's rules on the UK, or you can try the North Korean route.

Pretty much every first world nation I can think of outside of the EU has the things I described. Only in the EU do you have to have political union and no border controls in order to have a free trading arrangement.

Democracy isn't perfect but at least you can kick out those who make the laws and govern you at the ballot box. Whislt we're in the EU we're chiefly governed by European level politicians and technocrats who at best ignore the UK thanks to QMV and at worst work against UK interests.



Hedra42 said:
Still undecided. There's been so much mud-flinging between the two camps it's difficult to know who to trust - if any of them can be trusted at all. Both sides have been called out on being somewhat economical with the truth of what might happen if we stay/leave.

When I find an unbiased voice of reason in amongst all the crap, that's when I'll listen and decide.

So you're decision is not free or independent ? You base it on what other people say ?

You should make your opinion based on facts, not other opinions...



Machina said:
Iyasu said:

You need a time machine and go back to 1500 to get that.

Even if the UK leaves, globalisation will still force it's rules on the UK, or you can try the North Korean route.

Pretty much every first world nation I can think of outside of the EU has the things I described. Only in the EU do you have to have political union and no border controls in order to have a free trading arrangement.

Democracy isn't perfect but at least you can kick out those who make the laws and govern you at the ballot box. Whislt we're in the EU we're chiefly governed by European level politicians and technocrats who at best ignore the UK thanks to QMV and at worst work against UK interests.

With that line of thinking does that mean you'd be anti-UK and want English independence as well?



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think-man said:
phinch1 said:

Us Leaving the EU doesn't mean you can't do those things.... 

Im sure i read that 2 months after Britain leaves the EU i wouldn't be able to work in EU unless i started working there before they left.

You would still be able to but your have to apply I'd imagine if its work you want to do, if it's just traveling you can still do it 



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phinch1 said:
think-man said:

Im sure i read that 2 months after Britain leaves the EU i wouldn't be able to work in EU unless i started working there before they left.

You would still be able to but your have to apply I'd imagine if its work you want to do, if it's just traveling you can still do it 

Would probably depend on the country. I expect if the UK left the EU they would make agreements with the major European countries for visa free travel. But some of the smaller countries you might still need to apply/pay for a visa to get in.



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StokedUp said:
I choose leave, yes it might be a hard year or 2 to start off with while the country adjusts to being fully independent and fully in control of itself but in the long run this presents an opputunity to really make something great of it. Look at Norway, Finland and Sweden, those countries are not part of the EU but do have a deal to do trade and business with eu countries freely and every year those countries are voted in the top 10 best countries to live in every year.

We have a chance to to take back control and make our own rules for our own people.

 Last I checked Finland had the Euro and Sweden is also in the EU.

 

I think the Uk should decide whatever they want. As a German I think the people should have the right to decide. I personally think for the German Economy which is Export based it would be disastrous to leave and the Euro and the EU had many advantages for us. The UK leaving would give UK products a competitive disadvantage if the UK would lose all their EU trading priviliges and I can see this as an opportunity for the German Economy.   



Ka-pi96 said:
Machina said:

Pretty much every first world nation I can think of outside of the EU has the things I described. Only in the EU do you have to have political union and no border controls in order to have a free trading arrangement.

Democracy isn't perfect but at least you can kick out those who make the laws and govern you at the ballot box. Whislt we're in the EU we're chiefly governed by European level politicians and technocrats who at best ignore the UK thanks to QMV and at worst work against UK interests.

With that line of thinking does that mean you'd be anti-UK and want English independence as well?

The UK is largely culturally homogenous and for the most part shares a common land border (being an island nation and all), but if parts of the UK wish to achieve political indepence then I'm fine with that. I firmly believe in self-determination.

I was neutral on Scottish independence for example, though I suspect the key driver for it is English resentment; if the SNP truly wishes to be independent it would oppose EU membership.



Also a tip the poll is pointless I clicked on the first thing which was leave to see the results all the non uk people who do not have a vote and want to see the results have to vote and change the results drastically.



phinch1 said:
think-man said:

Im sure i read that 2 months after Britain leaves the EU i wouldn't be able to work in EU unless i started working there before they left.

You would still be able to but your have to apply I'd imagine if its work you want to do, if it's just traveling you can still do it 

I want to work with the same rights I have now. If it means I have to have some special visa to work in EU then my British citizenship is useless to me. Not only that but my gf is European and we had planned to go to the UK for a few years after id settled in, she would probably have all this extra trouble with visas and crap which would totally ruin any of those plans for us.