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Forums - Politics Discussion - Atomic bomb survivors want an apology from Obama.

Aielyn said:

America has not once apologised for using nuclear weapons on innocent people.

What makes dying by nuclear weapon worse than dying by non-nuclear weapon? 



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Final-Fan said:
Aielyn said:

America has not once apologised for using nuclear weapons on innocent people.

What makes dying by nuclear weapon worse than dying by non-nuclear weapon? 

Uhm...ever heard of radioactivity and what it can cause to the human body? 



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Nuvendil said:
Ruler said:

even china made some sanctions to north korea. If north korea would be as connected in trade like any country they wouldnt have devoloped a nuclear bomb. China trades maybe with north korea, and so used south korea to, but it was never as big to impact the country. Its something like 2 Billion $ which is nothing.

Or they would have both developed their nuclear arsenal and have the wealth to further arm and strengthen themselves.  The government of North Korea is cruel, controlling, aggressive, and certifiably insane.  Openly trading with them won't do a thing to change that.

As for Japan, the embargoes were put on them because they escalated their war in Asia, allied with Germany, openly ignored the Hague Convention and other international laws and treaties they signed when engaging the Chinese, and finally occupied regions of Southeast Asia by making use of said alliance to Germany.  The aggression and brutality of Japan's campaign was more than enough to justify - or even obligate - sanctions.  Yes, Japan took the less sensible route and raised the stakes but by no means did they *have* to do so.  If they had withdrawn from Southeast Asia and stopped trying to (brutally) conquer east Asia, they could have easily negotiated the lifting of said embargoes and put the resources gained to building up their nation rather than going a-conquering.  

North Korea is sane and knows what they are doing, who nuked two civillian cities here? North Korea wants to have a nuke in order to defend themselfs against american foreign policy agression. The nuke will make them more save, it means less spending on convential arms like operating 1-2 million soldiers a year which could go somewhere else like feeding its people or build electricty palnts etc.



japan attacked first ...let them apologize for pearl harbor first then we can consider apologizing for bombing them



Peh said:
Final-Fan said:

What makes dying by nuclear weapon worse than dying by non-nuclear weapon? 

Uhm...ever heard of radioactivity and what it can cause to the human body? 

Yes, I have.  But radiation poisoning is not the only horrific side effect of weapons of war, and also we are speaking in the context of America apologizing for nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and at the time that was done the long-term radiation effects were very poorly understood if I recall correctly.  (Therefore, the government of the time didn't nuke despite being cognizant of the long-term effects they would inflict, meaning they don't need to apologize for that specific reason.)



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Ruler said:
Nuvendil said:

Or they would have both developed their nuclear arsenal and have the wealth to further arm and strengthen themselves.  The government of North Korea is cruel, controlling, aggressive, and certifiably insane.  Openly trading with them won't do a thing to change that.

As for Japan, the embargoes were put on them because they escalated their war in Asia, allied with Germany, openly ignored the Hague Convention and other international laws and treaties they signed when engaging the Chinese, and finally occupied regions of Southeast Asia by making use of said alliance to Germany.  The aggression and brutality of Japan's campaign was more than enough to justify - or even obligate - sanctions.  Yes, Japan took the less sensible route and raised the stakes but by no means did they *have* to do so.  If they had withdrawn from Southeast Asia and stopped trying to (brutally) conquer east Asia, they could have easily negotiated the lifting of said embargoes and put the resources gained to building up their nation rather than going a-conquering.  

North Korea is sane and knows what they are doing, who nuked two civillian cities here? North Korea wants to have a nuke in order to defend themselfs against american foreign policy agression. The nuke will make them more save, it means less spending on convential arms like operating 1-2 million soldiers a year which could go somewhere else like feeding its people or build electricty palnts etc.

If you think the North Korean government is by any standard a good government then...wow I don't even know what to say.

And nukes don't make you safe. For one, they make you a larger target.  Second, it's not like anyone can use one right now, not attacking or defending.  So they can't use them to protect themselves.  All they can do is shield you from other nukes but that's not much since there are plenty of other destructive weapons out there.  

As for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I've given the facts on this numerous times so here's the short short short version:  they were military targets, one a massive command center and the other a weapons and munitions manufacturing center as well as containing an armory.  They were not pure soft targets, they would have been bombed to oblivion in the event of an invasion anyway.  Please see the rest of the freaking thread for details.



acer67 said:
japan attacked first ...let them apologize for pearl harbor first then we can consider apologizing for bombing them

Although the attack on Pearl Harbor, a military base, was wrong, it was far less indefensible than the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki's civilian populations.



Nuvendil said:
Ruler said:

North Korea is sane and knows what they are doing, who nuked two civillian cities here? North Korea wants to have a nuke in order to defend themselfs against american foreign policy agression. The nuke will make them more save, it means less spending on convential arms like operating 1-2 million soldiers a year which could go somewhere else like feeding its people or build electricty palnts etc.

If you think the North Korean government is by any standard a good government then...wow I don't even know what to say.

And nukes don't make you safe. For one, they make you a larger target.  Second, it's not like anyone can use one right now, not attacking or defending.  So they can't use them to protect themselves.  All they can do is shield you from other nukes but that's not much since there are plenty of other destructive weapons out there.  

As for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I've given the facts on this numerous times so here's the short short short version:  they were military targets, one a massive command center and the other a weapons and munitions manufacturing center as well as containing an armory.  They were not pure soft targets, they would have been bombed to oblivion in the event of an invasion anyway.  Please see the rest of the freaking thread for details.

How can America justify having NOT dropped an atomic bomb on North Korean instead of engaging in the Korean War and NOT dropping a bomb on Hanoi prior to engaging in the Vietnam War? Wouldn't the Vietnam Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C., with all the names of those young men etched into the stone in small font, be much shorter had America nuked Hanoi much earlier instead of engaging in a protracted conflict? 



Lefil said:
Nuvendil said:

If you think the North Korean government is by any standard a good government then...wow I don't even know what to say.

And nukes don't make you safe. For one, they make you a larger target.  Second, it's not like anyone can use one right now, not attacking or defending.  So they can't use them to protect themselves.  All they can do is shield you from other nukes but that's not much since there are plenty of other destructive weapons out there.  

As for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I've given the facts on this numerous times so here's the short short short version:  they were military targets, one a massive command center and the other a weapons and munitions manufacturing center as well as containing an armory.  They were not pure soft targets, they would have been bombed to oblivion in the event of an invasion anyway.  Please see the rest of the freaking thread for details.

How can America justify having NOT dropped an atomic bomb on North Korean instead of engaging in the Korean War and NOT dropping a bomb on Hanoi prior to engaging in the Vietnam War? Wouldn't the Vietnam Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C., with all the names of those young men etched into the stone in small font, be much shorter had America nuked Hanoi much earlier instead of engaging in a protracted conflict? 

A number of things changed between WWII and that war.

For one, the US didn't *want* NK or NV to surrender, they just wanted their attempts to invade their southern counterparts to stop. 

Second, there's the MAD concept to consider.  The fear was always that the use of a nuke by either the first world or second world used a nuke, there would be an escalation of retaliation that would cause immense if not total destruction. 

Also, while terrible, those wars never reached anything even remotely approaching the devestation of WWII. 

And lastly, we had a far better understanding of radiation.  We couldn't nuke with tactical or heavy nuclear ordinance North Korea or North Vietnam, they were too close to our allies and the attacks would adversely effect them as well. 

In short, entirely different situations.  To just boil it all down to nuke=better than a prolonged conflict is to take a highly complex decision and reduce it down to a non-representative simplistic argument.



acer67 said:
japan attacked first ...let them apologize for pearl harbor first then we can consider apologizing for bombing them

That make no sense? If Japan apologizes for pearl Harbor then they admit fault in the action and so should the reactions after. Basically, if Pearl Harbor was wrong and unjustified by the Japanese then everything following is their fault. We shouldn't apologize for anything