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Forums - Politics Discussion - Can Anyone Stop the Donald?

Ljink96 said:
bouzane said:

 


Trump is a joke as far as his business experience is concerned. He's also extremely dishonest which is... concerning. The sad part is that he's still the best choice out of the Republican candidates and frankly he's barely any worse than the Democratic front runners.

He is a Billionaire, you have to give him props for that. However, the Democratic front runners at least don't act like 16 year olds.



 

As others have pointed out, he's not a self made billionaire. He inherited millions and failed to outperform the market. Trump is actually below average as an investor even before you consider all of the government handouts he receives. Trump is great at building up massive amounts of debt, filing for bankruptcy and wasting tax payers money... so I guess he'll make a great president.

Edit: I have to laugh at Republicans who spout nonsense about not voting based on gay rights and social issues but instead economics. When was the last time a Republican president benefitted the economy? How has Trump's difficulties in the business world impressed you? Good god out of all the people to be talking trash. This is what happens when you have a nation that educates the masses in neither history nor economics. Have fun trading what remains of liberty for more debt because we know (I guess you don't) Trump is great at racking up debt. To be fair Trump isn't anything special when it comes to investing but then again, why would you vote for such a mediocre investor? That being said, it's not like there is a viable alternative so guess what, you shouldn't support any of the candidates.



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spurgeonryan said:
WolfpackN64 said:
On the republican side you mean? He doesn't stand a chance against Bernie

 

But if Bernie dies of old age before Trump goes up against him we do not have to worry. Please, no one seriously wants Bernie. I would rather have Hilary than Bernie.

No-one wants Bernie more than Hillary...

Exept, in your polls, it seems most of the people would pick Sanders over Hillary. And honestly, I can see why. If you want the US to economically, socially and politically drag it's feet for 8 more years, by all means, vote Hillary.





spurgeonryan said:
WolfpackN64 said:

No-one wants Bernie more than Hillary...

Exept, in your polls, it seems most of the people would pick Sanders over Hillary. And honestly, I can see why. If you want the US to economically, socially and politically drag it's feet for 8 more years, by all means, vote Hillary.



Either I will not waste my time voting, or I will vote for someone that does not really matter but I think could do a great job. Still waiting for that candidate.

 

Most politicians are not really in it to actually help anything. Just their own agenda along with whoever sponsored them. We only have the option to vote to make us think we have any real say so at all. The powers that be realized long ago that Kings and Queens did it all wrong. People hated them, unless you live in current England. So they made it so that people could feel like they matter and allowed us to vote.

 

Nothing really matters. They all will use us however they want.



Thats what I mean, Hillary is part of the establishment, Sanders on the other hand...





Soundwave said:
Rpruett said:

I don't believe he's liberal,  centrist - independent would be far closer (He's been a registered Republican since 88').   I believe that's why he would be a great choice.  He's not a divider (Obama has been a divider,  Cruz would be a divider too for example).

There isn't credentials for being president, but if there was any job on the planet that compares the most?  It probably would be the role in which Trump sits.  A multi-national, multi-billion, global conglomerate of businesses.   

 

Business world is easy to bring people together because there's a combining, overriding mutual force in business called -- gettin' paid. There's self interest involved. It doesn't work like that in politics. 


If you go a step more abstract,  that's exactly what politics are.  Gettin' paid is exactly the same as (Gettin' something that I want (Military support,  Cheap Oil, strategic help,  10 Battleships, Nuclear energy, etc, etc).   The manner in which you need to achieve that balance or agreement may differ, but the core concept remains the same and people are people.   You sell people, not ideas.  



 

Every politician is a divider and a unifier, you think everyone likes Clinton or Bush or even Reagan? Obama will be well thought of after his presidency because he's likable and nothing really major happened under his presidency. Most presidents are more fondly thought of post-presidency. 

And no being president is nothing like running a corporation. It would be much, much easier if it was like running a corporation. 

You don't sell anything to politics, politicans are on "their side" and that means they do everything they can to stop/derail the other side. That's the name of the game. 

Republicans have opposed positions from Obama that they supported like 10 years prior just because ... they can't be seen approving anything Obama. There's no arguing or rationalizing with people in politics in a lot of ways because they have their position (left or right) and they are never going to compromise on it. 

There's no "oh gee, you said that so eloquently, now I'm going to support your position".

The country changes from changing demographics and changing attitudes from the general public (ie: marijunana and gay marriage ... most Americans are more liberal on these issues today than 10-15 years ago, probably because a lot of the people against it probably also were old farts that died). But that isn't really a change due to any politican.  

You show a real lack of understanding with what it takes to succeed at the position. In business everyone has their side too,  as well as competitors and they aren't going "aww shucks,  I'll let you win too" .  You're going to need to do much better explaining if you want to pretend that they are vastly different.  If we were to draw a Vein diagram,  a multi billion,  global business would draw a broad amount of similarities to running a country. 

 

 What the fans of Blue team and Red team think of the President doesn't matter.  I agree that they will despise any candidate that isn't their own even making broad statements rooted in fallacy or exaggeration (This thread is a great example of that). 

 

Not every President is a divider.  Some unify the country more than others.  Obama has consistently pressed the conservative right and pushed racial undertones,  while also being far more of a Warhawk than what he advertised.   He has splintered the country and increased the party divide. 



barneystinson69 said:

He will certainly win the republican nomination, but he won't be president. Hillary is certainly a better canidate, and unlike trump, has experience in politics...

You think she will beat Sanders? His numbers just keep growing and growing.





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Rpruett said:

You show a real lack of understanding with what it takes to succeed at the position. In business everyone has their side too,  as well as competitors and they aren't going "aww shucks,  I'll let you win too" .  You're going to need to do much better explaining if you want to pretend that they are vastly different.  If we were to draw a Vein diagram,  a multi billion,  global business would draw a broad amount of similarities to running a country. 

 

 What the fans of Blue team and Red team think of the President doesn't matter.  I agree that they will despise any candidate that isn't their own even making broad statements rooted in fallacy or exaggeration (This thread is a great example of that). 

 

Not every President is a divider.  Some unify the country more than others.  Obama has consistently pressed the conservative right and pushed racial undertones,  while also being far more of a Warhawk than what he advertised.   He has splintered the country and increased the party divide. 

 


Now, I hate Obama as much as the next guy but to be fair the President doesn't get to make decisions regarding foreign policy. That aspect of American politics is obviously undemocratic and the Pentagon / CIA call the shots. A prime example is how the Reagan Doctrine was simply an extension of the Carter Doctrine because neither President was actually involved in what is a single, unified effort to prepare for the next global conflict (which I fear is in progress).



bouzane said:
Ljink96 said:
bouzane said:

 


Trump is a joke as far as his business experience is concerned. He's also extremely dishonest which is... concerning. The sad part is that he's still the best choice out of the Republican candidates and frankly he's barely any worse than the Democratic front runners.

He is a Billionaire, you have to give him props for that. However, the Democratic front runners at least don't act like 16 year olds.



 

As others have pointed out, he's not a self made billionaire. He inherited millions and failed to outperform the market. Trump is actually below average as an investor even before you consider all of the government handouts he receives. Trump is great at building up massive amounts of debt, filing for bankruptcy and wasting tax payers money... so I guess he'll make a great president.

Edit: I have to laugh at Republicans who spout nonsense about not voting based on gay rights and social issues but instead economics. When was the last time a Republican president benefitted the economy? How has Trump's difficulties in the business world impressed you? Good god out of all the people to be talking trash. This is what happens when you have a nation that educates the masses in neither history nor economics. Have fun trading what remains of liberty for more debt because we know (I guess you don't) Trump is great at racking up debt. To be fair Trump isn't anything special when it comes to investing but then again, why would you vote for such a mediocre investor? That being said, it's not like there is a viable alternative so guess what, you shouldn't support any of the candidates.

Reagan had incredible economic growth during his presidency.  The Bushes not so much.   Really from the Democratic side you have Clinton and prior to that who was the last Democrat who was in charge of a strong economy? 

 

I suppose you're right,  we should yield to people who have not shown any ability to invest or grow their personal wealth in any other capacity  other than taking tax payer money.   Maybe we should be voting for someone who couldn't pass her bar exam initially,  nothing like nepotism to ensure great hires!  

 

If Trumps statement is correct that he received a loan of one million dollars,  (and his high-end estimated worth is 10 billion dollars).... He would have tangibly increased his wealth roughly 10,000%. In regular people standards,  If you were to receive  50,000$ and show growth of 10,000% that's akin to you being worth 500 million dollars.   

 





This is all too funny. I remember when I used to live in "the hood" and we'd all joke about how the news is always talking about polls yet none of us ever get polled. A while after that I moved to a nicer neighborhood in a gated community and got a polling call within weeks.

I'd seen an interview with a pollster on The Today Show and he stated that predominantly minority neighborhoods aren't usually polled along with other neighborhoods because they're largely Democrat and will skew the poll numbers. So when Fox News was telling Fox Newsers back in 2012 that Mitt Romney would beat Barack Obama by a landslide we knew better. The election came, and we all know how that turned out.

Nearly everyone I know (outside my wife and her family) intend to vote this year. Nearly all of them intend to vote against Donald Trump. Trump is polling negatively with every group save for white males. I don't put much belief into polling but he's not as "unstoppable" as you may think. Minorities and young people aren't sitting out elections like they did in the past. That's not a good thing for Republicans.



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Rpruett said:
Ljink96 said:
Once things get down to the nitty gritty, America will hopefully snap out of it and end the ride. It's sad as hell when you're Republican front runner is Donald Trump. Business man, sure. President...uh..no. Most presidents we have seen, can tame their tongue and be wise to speak when appropriate and listen. He does too much speaking and too little listening, that's a recipe for a bona fide idiot. Why is he always in the news? He insults everyone he comes in contact with and he's fake as heck. You thought Obama was terrible...you thought Bush was terrible...just wait for Trump. He'll show us real terror.

You don't build a multi-billion dollar empire without being able to get along and compromise with  a wide group of people.  I really can't put it any simpler than that.   You think Trump will be terrible because you're buying his shtick hook, line and sinker.  You think he's just some blowhard reality TV show star.  He's a smart ivy league educated man who is essentially running an incredibly low budget campaign and completely destroying his competitors in the process.  

He's always in the news because he wants to always be in the news.  It's called playing to win the game.  He's out polticianing the politicians.  

 

Obama had zero credentials for his presidency.  Zero.   Just like Bush,  Bush had zero credentials other than "My Dad was pres!".   Trump will be way better than both of them.  

You thikn you're shoving words down my throat maybe? Do you read anyhting? Obama at least went through the ranks and eventually got noticed. Trump has absolutely NO political knowhow. ou can't mosey on into the presidency and don't know what the hell you're doing. He's all talk.



Rpruett said:

Reagan had incredible economic growth during his presidency.  The Bushes not so much.   Really from the Democratic side you have Clinton and prior to that who was the last Democrat who was in charge of a strong economy? 

 

I suppose you're right,  we should yield to people who have not shown any ability to invest or grow their personal wealth in any other capacity  other than taking tax payer money.   Maybe we should be voting for someone who couldn't pass her bar exam initially,  nothing like nepotism to ensure great hires!  

 

If Trumps statement is correct that he received a loan of one million dollars,  (and his high-end estimated worth is 10 billion dollars).... He would have tangibly increased his wealth roughly 10,000%. In regular people standards,  If you were to receive  50,000$ and show growth of 10,000% that's akin to you being worth 500 million dollars.   

 



 

We've been over this before, Reagan's economic growth came at the expense of a massive increase in the nation's debt. Reagan's economic accomplishments were not particularly impressive when taken in context, he was simply far better than the Bushes, Obama and Carter. Reagan's D grade in economics is the best thing the Republican party has accomplished in decades so again, their trash talking would be hilarious if it were not so pathetic.

I don't know where I endorsed any Democrats (a political organization that I thoroughly despise) so you might want to work on your reading comprehension because it seems to be lacking. Your little tirade about taking tax payer money can also be applied to Trump because he needed government bailouts on multiple occasions in the last 25 years. Hell, both parties seem to subscribe to a neo-corporatist / fascist economic model in which tax payer revenue is siphoned off to private organizations and individuals in an effort to undermine competition (a bold affront to capitalism and economic freedom). This reminds me of a quote:

"in a society where one can not fail, one can not succeed".

I don't know how I fooled it up last night but I thought Trump was pretty average as far as investment growth was concerned. Trump's total worth has increased by a factor of ~43 since 1982 (Edit ~200 million vs 8.7 billion) whereas the S&P has increased by a factor of ~16 making him above average (I had somehow concluded that he only outperformed the market by a factor of 55%, not 155%). That being said, Trump still isn't anything special even without considering all of the government handouts he has taken to "earn" this wealth. There are many high profile investors who have done a far, far better job than Trump could ever dream of (Ellison's net worth has increased by nearly 300 fold in a shorter span of time for example). So to reiterate, Trump is a lousy candidate once you get past his cult of personality. His greatest success is being an above average investor.