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Forums - Sports Discussion - The NFL Thread 2015: Denver Broncos win Super Bowl 50

 

Who will win Super Bowl 50?

Patriots 116 25.00%
 
Seahawks 41 8.84%
 
Colts 7 1.51%
 
Packers 42 9.05%
 
Broncos 85 18.32%
 
Ravens 8 1.72%
 
Cowboys 18 3.88%
 
Panthers 56 12.07%
 
Other 74 15.95%
 
Scoreboard 17 3.66%
 
Total:464
MTZehvor said:
Arkaign said:
At the same time, the ruling is kind of shady, and spells major problems for discipline in the NFL if they allow this to stand :

Essentially what the judge said on this is that because there wasn't a specific penalty/rule for punishment for the specific offense alleged in this situation, that the NFL had no authority to dole out anything on the matter. In essence, it's like if one of your kids got drunk, stole your car and then wrecked it, but if you had no rule that you had established before about that, then you couldn't ground them.

Sort of, yeah. But think about that from a legal standpoint.

Suppose, for instance, you get caught speeding. As a result, you're sentenced to five years in jail. You'd have every lawyer in the world signing up to handle an appeal case on that. There has to be some kind of standard for punishment set in place. You can't just arbitrarily fine someone $50 and sentence another person to jail for the same crime. Even if it sounds tedious, there needs to be clearly defined standards for punishment.

Setting aside whether Brady's innocent or not, the idea of working for an employer who can just make up punishment as they see fit with no precedent is kind of scary.

Unless you work for a union shop, in a 'right to work' state that's exactly what it's like to be an employee almost anywhere. I know someone who got fired because they had a 2nd job. There was no non-compete clause, no contractual anything, and it wasn't even the same type of work, but the employer simply felt that the person couldn't give 110% to them while having a second job.



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Arkaign said:
MTZehvor said:
Arkaign said:
At the same time, the ruling is kind of shady, and spells major problems for discipline in the NFL if they allow this to stand :

Essentially what the judge said on this is that because there wasn't a specific penalty/rule for punishment for the specific offense alleged in this situation, that the NFL had no authority to dole out anything on the matter. In essence, it's like if one of your kids got drunk, stole your car and then wrecked it, but if you had no rule that you had established before about that, then you couldn't ground them.

Sort of, yeah. But think about that from a legal standpoint.

Suppose, for instance, you get caught speeding. As a result, you're sentenced to five years in jail. You'd have every lawyer in the world signing up to handle an appeal case on that. There has to be some kind of standard for punishment set in place. You can't just arbitrarily fine someone $50 and sentence another person to jail for the same crime. Even if it sounds tedious, there needs to be clearly defined standards for punishment.

Setting aside whether Brady's innocent or not, the idea of working for an employer who can just make up punishment as they see fit with no precedent is kind of scary.

Unless you work for a union shop, in a 'right to work' state that's exactly what it's like to be an employee almost anywhere. I know someone who got fired because they had a 2nd job. There was no non-compete clause, no contractual anything, and it wasn't even the same type of work, but the employer simply felt that the person couldn't give 110% to them while having a second job.

...without warning them that they'd be fired if they didn't quit the second job either?

If that's the case, then yeah, I'd say that sounds pretty sketchy as well, and it's probably not a place I'd like to work if I had a choice.



The reason doesn't even matter unless they are dumb enough to state something illegal as their reasoning. They don't have to give a reason at all.

http://www.afscme.org/blog/right-to-works-racist-roots

Anyway, I think we can all agree the NFL's handling of this, Hardy, Rice, Marijuana, and just generally everything related has been an outright disaster from the word go. It all speaks of arrogance, favoritism, greed, and stupidity that stems from too many rich suits and too many lawyers thinking purely of themselves with no regard for fairness, logic, or transparency.



Arkaign said:
I'm glad that got overturned. Whether NE keeps strong this year or falters, it is never good for there to be a gigantic excuse for anything like missing your most important player for a quarter of the season.

At the same time, the ruling is kind of shady, and spells major problems for discipline in the NFL if they allow this to stand :

Essentially what the judge said on this is that because there wasn't a specific penalty/rule for punishment for the specific offense alleged in this situation, that the NFL had no authority to dole out anything on the matter. In essence, it's like if one of your kids got drunk, stole your car and then wrecked it, but if you had no rule that you had established before about that, then you couldn't ground them.

So I expect the league to take this to the district level on appeals, and there will be massive ramifications far beyond Brady/NE on this fiasco. I just hope the appeals go into the next offseason and don't screw with NE/Brady during this season.

This is actually not the main reason that it got overturned. If you read all of the legal analysts tweeting about this and read the court document itself, it was because there was found to be a completely unfair PROCESS to find Brady guilty, starting with the "independant" Wells Report (which the judge also puts in quotations because that's a joke). The Wells report was one-sided, and was edited by part of the NFLs legal team, Jeffrey Pash, during the whole proceeding the Patriots legal team were barred from seeing the a lot of the documentation in order to rebutt and see what was being gathered against them. The appeal with Goodell was a farce, Goodell had already made up his mind, and during it Jeffrey Pash was blocked from Brady's legal team's questioning, and he was a MAJOR contributor to the Wells Report. Goodell lied to our faces about said appeal, and said Brady was not forthcoming, and unconvincing, and that he hindered the investigation. All not true, when the transcript came out, it was found that Brady was extremely cooperative, and during the investigation had provided the cell phone that he had, and a prior one, the one that had been destroyed was a regular thing for Brady, and ALL communication from that phone was provided to the legal teams from the service provider. Brady was railroaded, the Patriots were screwed, because the rest of the league hates them winning all of the time and wanted to find a way to even the playing field.

Too bad for them, all Brady does is wins.



NNID: Dongo8                              XBL Gamertag: Dongos Revenge

^^

"Judge Richard M. Berman of Federal District Court in Manhattan did not rule on whether Brady tampered with the footballs in a bid for competitive advantage. Instead, he focused on the narrower question of whether the collective bargaining agreement between the N.F.L. and the players union gave Goodell the authority to carry out the suspension. Judge Berman ruled that it did not."

The case was basically not even about Brady at all from everything I can find. It was about Goodell overstepping his authority under the CBA.



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Arkaign said:
^^

"Judge Richard M. Berman of Federal District Court in Manhattan did not rule on whether Brady tampered with the footballs in a bid for competitive advantage. Instead, he focused on the narrower question of whether the collective bargaining agreement between the N.F.L. and the players union gave Goodell the authority to carry out the suspension. Judge Berman ruled that it did not."

The case was basically not even about Brady at all from everything I can find. It was about Goodell overstepping his authority under the CBA.

More importantly, the Judge due to prior case law couldn't rule on the evidence.  Precedent had already been set, it's why many many people were confused when he spent the first hearing grilling the NFL on their actual evidence.  Which is concerning in and of itself, really.  If you take Brady/Pats out of this and realize that in a case where the facts are clearly wrong, the Judge cannot overturn an arbitration award, on those points.



mornelithe said:
Arkaign said:
^^

"Judge Richard M. Berman of Federal District Court in Manhattan did not rule on whether Brady tampered with the footballs in a bid for competitive advantage. Instead, he focused on the narrower question of whether the collective bargaining agreement between the N.F.L. and the players union gave Goodell the authority to carry out the suspension. Judge Berman ruled that it did not."

The case was basically not even about Brady at all from everything I can find. It was about Goodell overstepping his authority under the CBA.

More importantly, the Judge due to prior case law couldn't rule on the evidence.  Precedent had already been set, it's why many many people were confused when he spent the first hearing grilling the NFL on their actual evidence.  Which is concerning in and of itself, really.  If you take Brady/Pats out of this and realize that in a case where the facts are clearly wrong, the Judge cannot overturn an arbitration award, on those points.

I have a feeling that portion of the CBA will get reworked when the current one expires.



MTZehvor said:
mornelithe said:

More importantly, the Judge due to prior case law couldn't rule on the evidence.  Precedent had already been set, it's why many many people were confused when he spent the first hearing grilling the NFL on their actual evidence.  Which is concerning in and of itself, really.  If you take Brady/Pats out of this and realize that in a case where the facts are clearly wrong, the Judge cannot overturn an arbitration award, on those points.

I have a feeling that portion of the CBA will get reworked when the current one expires.

Unlikely, however, what I think will absolutely happen is the NFLPA will fight to have a neutral arbiter hear all appeals from now on when the CBA is up in 2020.  In fact, if I were the 32 owners, I'd actually be working to change the CBA now...and not allow another 5 years of this buffoonery to hurt the NFL's image.  Yes, the NFL still makes money hand over fist, but throughout this process (and Bountygate and the Peterson/Rice cases), you can't tell me this hasn't harmed them, and only leads me to believe that the NFL is profitable despite the Commissioner, not because of him.



3 Points the NFL got their ass kicked on. Goodell did overstep his authority, but as I said, unless you have been following this all along you are a bit naive. Judge said many times that he saw no inclination that Brady was in any way connected to this stuff, and the texts and emails and such back that up, it's just people WANT him to be guilty, so they have already judged him in their minds and will not reconsider even with the facts right in front of them. Kind of nauseating actually.



NNID: Dongo8                              XBL Gamertag: Dongos Revenge

Sign me up for 2015 prediction league please.