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Forums - Politics Discussion - Greeks, what will you vote?

At this point, why bother at all? No one is willing to help Greece. The germans, the russians, the chinese (why bother the chinese at all though), no one is going to help Greece this time. They WILL default, and they'll probably be kicked out of the Eurozone. Even if "No" wins, its not going to do anything to help, as all other talks to delay the repayments have failed. Greece is doomed. So start buying up those drachma's, as pretty soon you'll be using them again.



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The bailout terms are a joke. I'm all for setting our economy straight and paying every cent we owe back, but this is simply provocative.

WE HAVE LOST 26% of our GDP, we have 27% unemployment rate, the average spending has dropped by 40%, pension and wages cut by 30-60%, and most taxes have increased by 30%. And still, they ask us to take the same austerity "medicine" because it "worked" for Ireland and Portugal etc!

How can making EVERY company in Greece pay 100% of its tax of the next year IN ADVANCE (essentially doubling the tax for companies) lead us back to growth and employment? How can increasing the VAT from 13% to 23% in hotels, food, etc not make us prohibitevely expensive in contrast to Spain, Portugal, Italy and Turkey?

These terms are a travesty. The EU simply does not care about saving Greece. Simple as that. As a Greek, I'd rather live with half of what I own, than bow down to the Troika's demands and humiliation.

PS: The saddest part of it all, is the misinformation and lies that every other EU (not exclusively) country is being told. Everyone blames us for not trying, for being lazy, that it's only Greece's problem, etc. When we go under and some day austerity knocks on your doors, it will already be too late.



Some very interesting links can be made between Greece and Cuba.

Both countries have an underdeveloped industrial sector, and an economy relying on large amounts of tourists and a few speciality products.

Both countries had close links to a greater partner (U.R.S.S), which cut links eventually (will cut links, in greece's case.)



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Greece will show the EU the way forward. One way or the other. One by showing that a low-debt economy works or the other by teaching the horror that a default bring along.

I really hope that the whole EU watches and learns from this mess. My country - Belgium - has a higher debt ratio then Greece and an a similar thieving politics. We may soon disappear in that big debt hole also.



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

So they want to dodge responsibility now after they assraped the economy leaving millions to suffer? There should be an inquiry and all who are guilty to be imprisoned.



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The Greek government should be held accountable for all its corruption and poor leadership.
We couldn't afford the Olympics of 2004 and all the infrastructure that has been built for it has not been put to good use like they did in Great Britain//London. Such shortsightedness has ruined us.

We are led by idiots while we should be led by someone like Alcibiades.



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

generic-user-1 said:

 

the gdp took 5 years to get back to the pre cisis level.  and argentina had a lot more problems before the crash and default.

the debt level doesnt matter if you default you dont pay your debt, and this will be alot easyer for greece because basicly just the imf, the EU, the ecb and greek bank own the bonds. the government doesnt need new funds, they are in the black when you dont count the interrest for the debt.

You are kidding yourself, if anything the Greek situation is worse. The instant they default will see a massive decline into recession (Actually that has already started) so no more being in the black. They will need to change currency as unlike Argentina they don't have monetary controls to use as a lever. Greece will sink a long long LONG way from where they are now before they even begin to recover. If what you suggest was true the Greek government would have walked away from their obligations long ago. many will go from poverty to extreme poverty and the government won't have the funds to do anything about it.



nanarchy said:
generic-user-1 said:

 

the gdp took 5 years to get back to the pre cisis level.  and argentina had a lot more problems before the crash and default.

the debt level doesnt matter if you default you dont pay your debt, and this will be alot easyer for greece because basicly just the imf, the EU, the ecb and greek bank own the bonds. the government doesnt need new funds, they are in the black when you dont count the interrest for the debt.

You are kidding yourself, if anything the Greek situation is worse. The instant they default will see a massive decline into recession (Actually that has already started) so no more being in the black. They will need to change currency as unlike Argentina they don't have monetary controls to use as a lever. Greece will sink a long long LONG way from where they are now before they even begin to recover. If what you suggest was true the Greek government would have walked away from their obligations long ago. many will go from poverty to extreme poverty and the government won't have the funds to do anything about it.

the new greek government allmost walked away several times. they dont fear the default. the old greek government, well they allready feaed for their lives after crashing the country.



generic-user-1 said:

 

the new greek government allmost walked away several times. they dont fear the default. the old greek government, well they allready feaed for their lives after crashing the country.

If they didn't fear the default they wouldn't have put it to a vote, they are well aware of the catastrophic consequences and want to be able to say that the people made the choice to take the pain. Don't get me wrong, long term (in a couple of decades) they can come out of it far better and healthier, but the short term pain will be very real and very harsh.



nanarchy said:
generic-user-1 said:

 

the new greek government allmost walked away several times. they dont fear the default. the old greek government, well they allready feaed for their lives after crashing the country.

If they didn't fear the default they wouldn't have put it to a vote, they are well aware of the catastrophic consequences and want to be able to say that the people made the choice to take the pain. Don't get me wrong, long term (in a couple of decades) they can come out of it far better and healthier, but the short term pain will be very real and very harsh.

they want a better deal from the troika, and they want it in public because some people in the troika are full of shit.

the vote is the best way of getting that.