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Forums - Politics Discussion - How well do you think the economy is going in the next few years?

morenoingrato said:
South America is fucked.
Brazil and Argentina are stagnant and show no sign of recovery.
Venezuela is doomed and will probably stop being an important player at this rate.
Worst part, all of the smaller economies of the region are following the radical left that is crippling our opportunities for expansion.


They do the right thing, the US is espacially to be blamed for the most part with color revolutions there, making the economy unstable



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Ruler said:
morenoingrato said:
South America is fucked.
Brazil and Argentina are stagnant and show no sign of recovery.
Venezuela is doomed and will probably stop being an important player at this rate.
Worst part, all of the smaller economies of the region are following the radical left that is crippling our opportunities for expansion.


They do the right thing, the US is espacially to be blamed for the most part. 

I am not going to deny the U.S. fucked up here early on. The result of that is the extreme left that has been going on here for years. It already imploded in Venezuela and is slowly developing very negatively in the rest of the region. The region needs to stop that.

What are the results? Venezuela (The most redical left country)? Massive recession. Argentina? Recession. Brazil? Stagnant. With low oil Ecuador might just be heading towards a recession and it is showing no signs of liberating its policies. It is no surprise the only country that has not gone full left is doing well (Chile) and Colombia is doing relatively decently.

Just watch, South America is heading towards a rude awakening. I am no advocate of far right, but this extreme left in South America is a tickling bomb that has already detonated in Venezuela.

EDIT: It seems you edited your post, and I disagree. That is what the ultra corrupted Maduro is blaming on for his incomptence in Venezuela and that is what the president of Ecuador is trying to tell us, but we are not buying it. It is their colossal screw ups.



morenoingrato said:
Ruler said:


They do the right thing, the US is espacially to be blamed for the most part. 

I am not going to deny the U.S. fucked up here early on. The result of that is the extreme left that has been going on here for years. It already imploded in Venezuela and is slowly developing very negatively in the rest of the region. The region needs to stop that.

What are the results? Venezuela (The most redical left country)? Massive recession. Argentina? Recession. Brazil? Stagnant. With low oil Ecuador might just be heading towards a recession and it is showing no signs of liberating its policies. It is no surprise the only country that has not gone full left is doing well (Chile) and Colombia is doing relatively decently.

Just watch, South America is heading towards a rude awakening. I am no advocate of far right, but this extreme left in South America is a tickling bomb that has already detonated in Venezuela.

EDIT: It seems you edited your post, and I disagree. That is what the ultra corrupted Maduro is blaming on for his incomptence in Venezuela and that is what the president of Ecuador is trying to tell us, but we are not buying it. It is their colossal screw ups.

Chile is only doing better because of copper reserves, look at cuba and venezuela who are some of he richest countries in south america and argentinia too

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD/countries/CU-VE-CL-CO-EC-MX?display=graph

Mexico for example is closest to the US inflence and performs not so good.



morenoingrato said:

I am not going to deny the U.S. fucked up here early on. The result of that is the extreme left that has been going on here for years. It already imploded in Venezuela and is slowly developing very negatively in the rest of the region. The region needs to stop that.

What are the results? Venezuela (The most redical left country)? Massive recession. Argentina? Recession. Brazil? Stagnant. With low oil Ecuador might just be heading towards a recession and it is showing no signs of liberating its policies. It is no surprise the only country that has not gone full left is doing well (Chile) and Colombia is doing relatively decently.

Just watch, South America is heading towards a rude awakening. I am no advocate of far right, but this extreme left in South America is a tickling bomb that has already detonated in Venezuela.

As a Brazilian, i can testify for this. Despite the fact that the president just won the elections in october (barely), the latest pool showed 44% think the government is bad and 46% that she lied during the campaign. We are surely going to see a comeback from the right in the next years. Actually we already did, in our congress, which became the most conservative of the last decade.

Venezuela and Argentina are just sad to watch. The government in Argentina had to forbid the population from buying dollars and it seems to have no credibility at all.

My main worry though is greece. Either Troika "forgives" their debt, and therefore Spain will elect Podemos and refuse to pay too, or the country could be expelled from EU. 



Ruler said:
morenoingrato said:

I am not going to deny the U.S. fucked up here early on. The result of that is the extreme left that has been going on here for years. It already imploded in Venezuela and is slowly developing very negatively in the rest of the region. The region needs to stop that.

What are the results? Venezuela (The most redical left country)? Massive recession. Argentina? Recession. Brazil? Stagnant. With low oil Ecuador might just be heading towards a recession and it is showing no signs of liberating its policies. It is no surprise the only country that has not gone full left is doing well (Chile) and Colombia is doing relatively decently.

Just watch, South America is heading towards a rude awakening. I am no advocate of far right, but this extreme left in South America is a tickling bomb that has already detonated in Venezuela.

EDIT: It seems you edited your post, and I disagree. That is what the ultra corrupted Maduro is blaming on for his incomptence in Venezuela and that is what the president of Ecuador is trying to tell us, but we are not buying it. It is their colossal screw ups.

Chile is only doing better because of copper reserves, look at cuba and venezuela who are some of he richest countries in south america and argentinia too

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD/countries/CU-VE-CL-CO-EC-MX?display=graph

Mexico for example is closest to the US inflence and performs not so good.

Eh, sorry, but using a graph vs. seeing the situation developing in real time is totally different.

The reason Venezuela developed a relatively strong economy over the years is because it still has huge amounts of oil. Yet the situation there is very bad at the moment. People can not get food, human rights violations are commited daily and cheap goods like condoms are sold at over $500. They are having a horrible time even with vast oil reserves. Produces more oil than UAE yet people can not get food. Go figure.

We are not talking about the accumulated GDP per capita but of the current situation, which looks super grim. Both Venezuela and Argentina are heading towards recession.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/30/venezuela-economy-idUSL1N0UE1FY20141230

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-venezuelas-economy-shrunk-28-percent-in-2014-maduro-2015-1

http://www.cato.org/blog/world-misery-index-108-countries#MY9WlA:FZO

 

Look at the top 2 countries in the misery index. And believe me, Ecuador and others are heading there by using the same policies.

Cuba is doing okay, I guess, but it is not in South America and had adopted communism for a while anyway.



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Not good but it is hard to get a really accurate view of what is going on because so many of the numbers/markets are manipulated.Good ones to watch in the USA are motor vehicle sales m/m, capacity utilization rate and retail sales since consumer spending makes up 75% of the US economy.Ignore the inflation numbers and the non farm payroll numbers as these are heavily manipulated.Going by these the economy is doing OK but seems to be slowing down now, especially with the recent poor weather in the US.

Chinese manufacturing has been stagnant the past year going by the official numbers which aren't all that reliable.More reliable in China is house prices and number of new home sales, Construction/Infrastructure spending makes up something like 30% of the Chinese economy.Both these numbers are down this year which is a big part of why so many commodities like Iron Ore, Copper etc are also down.I saw a chart the other day stating Chinas total debt/GDP is over 200%, a large portion of that is tied to shadow banking loans on residential and commercial real estate.I think the next financial crisis will start in China, not Europe or the US.Maybe later this year or early 2016.

 

This is a site i always check for economic info, gives you all the important stuff : http://www.forexfactory.com/calendar.php



Germany is doing well and will continue to profit from the crisis

Weak Euro: exports become cheaper, Germany exports more
Weak Oil Price: cheap oil is great
Low interest rates for country: Germany can refinance for nothing
Low interest rates for people: saving money is a bad idea, so Germans start spending money, giving a boost to consumption, which was Germanys main problem in the last years

RoW is pretty much doomed :)



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vkaraujo said:
morenoingrato said:

I am not going to deny the U.S. fucked up here early on. The result of that is the extreme left that has been going on here for years. It already imploded in Venezuela and is slowly developing very negatively in the rest of the region. The region needs to stop that.

What are the results? Venezuela (The most redical left country)? Massive recession. Argentina? Recession. Brazil? Stagnant. With low oil Ecuador might just be heading towards a recession and it is showing no signs of liberating its policies. It is no surprise the only country that has not gone full left is doing well (Chile) and Colombia is doing relatively decently.

Just watch, South America is heading towards a rude awakening. I am no advocate of far right, but this extreme left in South America is a tickling bomb that has already detonated in Venezuela.

As a Brazilian, i can testify for this. Despite the fact that the president just won the elections in october (barely), the latest pool showed 44% think the government is bad and 46% that she lied during the campaign. We are surely going to see a comeback from the right in the next years. Actually we already did, in our congress, which became the most conservative of the last decade.

Venezuela and Argentina are just sad to watch. The government in Argentina had to forbid the population from buying dollars and it seems to have no credibility at all.

My main worry though is greece. Either Troika "forgives" their debt, and therefore Spain will elect Podemos and refuse to pay too, or the country could be expelled from EU. 

Spain's going to elect Podemos either way, i think. It's the Five-Star Movement whose future is in doubt and could be influenced by events in Greece.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

SlayerRondo said:
Mr Khan said:
SlayerRondo said:
Allot of those countries need a real recession that purges the weaker elements of their economy.

Recessions and companies failing are part of a healthy economy as they free up resources for more effective/efficient people to utilize. You can only prop up the weaker companies with special privileges and bailouts for so long.

Zombie firms are a problem, but the alternative is severely painful.

Economics is demand-driven, after all. If you "let" General Motors go bust, for instance, that's a ripple effect that could put millions out of work, which means millions of people scraping by and buying only the bare essentials; not buying cars, not buying houses, not buying TVs or movie tickets or good restaurant meals. This creates a further knock-on effect as other car companies now have to contract.

Supply side economics doesn't solve this because no matter how easy you make investment, people are NOT going to invest if there's no demand for a product or service due to the depressed economy. They'll invest in safe things like financial instruments or Sovereign Debt (which is why, despite effectively negative shadow interest rates on Treasury bonds, people still buy 'em because it's safer than plugging it into an auto startup).

This is not to say that supply side is useless: an economy with low barriers to investment and entrepreneurship is going to be more nimble than an economy with high barriers, but when you have a slump, money in people's pockets is what unsticks the system. Governments all over the world are scared of "handouts", however, or stuck in pigheaded belt-tightening loops which simply make the process worse (lay off government workers and guess what? That's less people who can buy consumer goods, so less demand for capital investment from companies providing consumer goods, etc. The lower taxes in no way make up for that, especially because in a lot of these cases those taxes simply are diverted into debt payment and not actually lowered).

For the OP:

The U.S. economy is making its way back, although the return of people to the labor force is going to keep the unemployment rate steady and keep wages stagnant for a while, because it will be some time before labor force participation is corrected.

Europe is going to go through a long run of stasis unless Germany gets their head out of their collective kiester and lets QE and stimulus happen.

Japan, however, seems to have realized their error in the increased sales tax, though it remains to be seen if they can divert in time.

China will cool off, but hopefully not shrink.

Russia needs to diversify NOW or risk losing all momentum entirely.

Economics is demand-driven, after all. If you "let" General Motors go bust, for instance, that's a ripple effect that could put millions out of work, which means millions of people scraping by and buying only the bare essentials; not buying cars, not buying houses, not buying TVs or movie tickets or good restaurant meals. This creates a further knock-on effect as other car companies now have to contract.

Losing jobs can be painfull for the economy but also has long term positive effects. General Motors was a failure and was a waste of economic resources that needed to be freed up for better existing companies and new entrants to the market. And the other upside is that the economy does not accumulate losers like General Motors who create a potentially more dangerous situation. If one general motors going out of business is bad imagine ten going out of business at once? The government will reach a point where so many companies fail because they have been propped up to long by the government they can no longer stop what will then be a real depression.

Supply side economics doesn't solve this because no matter how easy you make investment, people are NOT going to invest if there's no demand for a product or service due to the depressed economy. They'll invest in safe things like financial instruments or Sovereign Debt (which is why, despite effectively negative shadow interest rates on Treasury bonds, people still buy 'em because it's safer than plugging it into an auto startup).

Even in depressed economies there is a demand for goods and services that people will be willing to invest resources into producing to meets these demands and possibly seek out new markets oversea's which is something America desperately needs given it's trade deficits since the mid 70's. There might also be more incentive to invest in auto start ups if barriers to new entrants were decreased and companies like general motors were allowed to fail freeing up market space.

This is not to say that supply side is useless: an economy with low barriers to investment and entrepreneurship is going to be more nimble than an economy with high barriers, but when you have a slump, money in people's pockets is what unsticks the system. Governments all over the world are scared of "handouts", however, or stuck in pigheaded belt-tightening loops which simply make the process worse (lay off government workers and guess what? That's less people who can buy consumer goods, so less demand for capital investment from companies providing consumer goods, etc. The lower taxes in no way make up for that, especially because in a lot of these cases those taxes simply are diverted into debt payment and not actually lowered).

If governments all round the world are afraid of handouts that's the first I'm hearing of it. Their has not been a single country that I could honestly say engaged in meaningful austerity including Germany. And while laying off government workers means less consumption from their end they also mean less taxation on the other end. If the government workers can't buy as much they can simply seek customers from the excess capital that is no longer being wasted on government expenditure and is in their own pocket. And while some jobs may disappear other jobs will be created, governments have at times let recessions run their course and the economy recovered in due course. The problem is that so many jobs should not exist be them government jobs or the jobs of people working at propped up companies that when the government can no longer stop them failing it will take the economy years to recover.

Europe is going to go through a long run of stasis unless Germany gets their head out of their collective kiester and lets QE and stimulus happen.

More inflation is not going to do anything other than discourage saving which is a big part of the problem in the first place. When people consume beyond what they produce it will always catch up with them. China will be unwilling to sustain American consumption forever.

austerity is wrong if you have to cut more thanjust the fat.  germany hasnt cut any government worker, they hired MORE because they were needed to make the systemn run better.  lower taxation on the other hand doesnt work realy well, the people who would consume more dont pay taxes and the one that get a lot of money back doesnt consumer more even if they would pay 0% taxes.

if you want to cut taxes, cut consume taxes, not income taxes.

 

and QE isnt working because the banking system is broken and needs replacement.  greece needs community banks, cooperative or city owned, both works well.   a real stimulus would work, but they had to break a iron law and let the ecb finance the stimulus. bestway would be green energie, that helps generating profits IN the state and not in the middle east or russia.

the thousand of small green energie producers in germany generate a lot of taxes on a local level, where the people get the most out of every € the community produces( and they dont try to evade taxes so hard because it would be way to much work for the little taxes they could evade)



vkaraujo said:
morenoingrato said:

I am not going to deny the U.S. fucked up here early on. The result of that is the extreme left that has been going on here for years. It already imploded in Venezuela and is slowly developing very negatively in the rest of the region. The region needs to stop that.

What are the results? Venezuela (The most redical left country)? Massive recession. Argentina? Recession. Brazil? Stagnant. With low oil Ecuador might just be heading towards a recession and it is showing no signs of liberating its policies. It is no surprise the only country that has not gone full left is doing well (Chile) and Colombia is doing relatively decently.

Just watch, South America is heading towards a rude awakening. I am no advocate of far right, but this extreme left in South America is a tickling bomb that has already detonated in Venezuela.

As a Brazilian, i can testify for this. Despite the fact that the president just won the elections in october (barely), the latest pool showed 44% think the government is bad and 46% that she lied during the campaign. We are surely going to see a comeback from the right in the next years. Actually we already did, in our congress, which became the most conservative of the last decade.

Venezuela and Argentina are just sad to watch. The government in Argentina had to forbid the population from buying dollars and it seems to have no credibility at all.

My main worry though is greece. Either Troika "forgives" their debt, and therefore Spain will elect Podemos and refuse to pay too, or the country could be expelled from EU. 

they dont need so much debt "forgiven". they just need to stop some stupid reforms and the EU should stop the troika by kicking out the imf, those guys are just insane, they try the same shit over and over and it never worked and will never work.  sure they need 200 years or so till they have a normal debt level, but thats totaly fine i guess, it doesnt cost the EU much(well it brings germany money because of the low/negative bund rate for germany).