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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Innovation vs Game design (not another the order thread)

First and foremost, this is not about the order; though I'll admit this its failure to meet expectations along with a slew of other AAA games has brought about the creation of this thread. This is my take on the current gaming landscape.

I strongly believe that the core reason that games seem to lack innovation, or fail to deliver firmly falls on just one thing. Game design, particularly; game design towards a drive for accessibility. 

I started my gaming years in a time when the closest thing to multiplayer was someone else sitting on your couch and if you are really lucky a split screen for the most advanced multiplayer games. When practically every game was broken up into 6-10 levels and if you really knew what to do each level could be finished in under 10 minutes. In hindsight some of the best and most fun games I have played in my life are all based on that kinda game design. 

Double dragon, streets of rage, cybernator, hitman 1 and 2, tenchu, shinobi, ninja gaiden, god of war, devil may cry, shadow of the collosus, vanquish....etc

Those games all had a very basic point to point approach to their game design. And with games like shadow of the collosus, you can even see that an entire game can be made on just killing 16 enemies. 

So what went wrong? simply put, games got too easy. Not just in their execution, but also in all the advancements made towards making them more user friendly; check points, life regen..etc. And that is simply it, the biggest draw to gaming always used to be about that sense of accomplishment. Overcoming that challenge that would usually require a deep understanding of the game system or mechanic on display. 

The problem we have now, is that games no longer offer any real challenge. I firmly believe that its possible to make TPS for example, with AI so brutal and the cost of getting hit so high, that coming up against 3 enemies at once could be a game changing experience. That running from cover to cover could be made the scariest thing you have ever had to do. That its better pitting a gamer in a position where they would have to hone their skills to ration their few and sparse health packs for that inevitable boss battle than allow us just hide behind a wall for 10 seconds. We went from having 3 lives, to managing health packs to just chilling behind a wall for 10 seconds.

I believe that where games have truly failed today is not in innovation but in game design.

Don't get me wrong, game design has improved, just in the wrong direction. Its improved towards making games easier to play instead of improving towards making them more challenging. 

Once upon a time, no one ever really wanted to play a game on hard. Now, hard can usually be finished with an arm tied behind your back. 

What do you guys think? And how can we let developers know that this is what their problem really is. Most importantly, how cone don't they know this already?



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Challenge is everywhere one seeks is. Problem is people nowadays are too lazy to look for challenges by themselves and want games to dictate it for them. Like it was in the old games when games were designed to draw as much pocket change out of children as possible.

It's actually really funny when you think about it. People looking for a challenge want the games to make it easier for them to find a challenge^^



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

I disagree on checkpoints (not any easier especially in 1 hit kill games) but agree on regen health. One of the reasons I loved Resistance 3 was because it brought health packs into a modern FPS. I felt a sense of danger when I had 10 health left and had to sprint for it or fight it out knowing I had to be mistake free.




Get Your Portable ID!Lord of Ratchet and Clank

Duke of Playstation Plus

Warden of Platformers

You wanna let devolpers know? then buy the games who are that hard to show them it with your wallet,

like bloodborne.
The best looking game coming out soon yet one of the hardest, every AAA devolper would be afraid losing the casual market but fromsoftware isnt. That game should get all the money as much as possible



I disagree.

There is a market for a medium in between movies and games. I hope the variety of game design we have today grows even further. I'd specifically like to see telltale games get a direct competitor.



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Yes, I have no idea how cover-based shooters with auto regeneration became mainstream. It's just poor game design.

I remember that the most cinematic games of the early 2000s like Max Payne I&II or Mafia didn't only have cutting-edge graphics and good stories, they also had some of the most innovative gameplay mechanics at that time. And they weren't as easy as most of today's mainstream games.



Challenge is not the fun part of games but it's a up there in making a compelling game under good game design and controls.

It's not a secret to everybody that AAA games are getting homogenized because it could be argued that the blueprint they all use also include the same non obstructive FPS or TPS controls or whatever that we're all used to but old games of the past, even the ones that you have mentioned, each had they're own controls and overcame the limitations of the hardware in their own unique way and that put you into diffrent unique challenges.

This video explains it better because he's way smarter than me
http://youtu.be/jCmmYF4rOwo

Edit: hope this link doesn't piss off Wright :x



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episteme said:
Yes, I have no idea how cover-based shooters with auto regeneration became mainstream. It's just poor game design.

I remember that the most cinematic games of the early 2000s like Max Payne I&II or Mafia didn't only have cutting-edge graphics and good stories, they also had some of the most innovative gameplay mechanics at that time. And they weren't as easy as most of today's mainstream games.

Funny thing is people critized and made fun of the gateway for regenerating health by leaning to the wall at the time



vivster said:

Challenge is everywhere one seeks is. Problem is people nowadays are too lazy to look for challenges by themselves and want games to dictate it for them. Like it was in the old games when games were designed to draw as much pocket change out of children as possible.

It's actually really funny when you think about it. People looking for a challenge want the games to make it easier for them to find a challenge^^

Yh, I know there are ways to seek out challenges in games if you really really want to. And sometimes that may even be you just flat out making the game harder for yourself, but what I'm saying is that at the cirr of the majority of games right now, they are all just too easy to play and really simplified. There is usually only like 3-5 games (even if that many) each year that fall into what I would call skill based games.

Now a majority of games released requite little to no skill from the gamer at all to play them, you can pretty much mindlessly just go through the games.

I'm not saying we should do away with how accessible or easy games are today, but let what the current hard is fall into normal or easy and let the new hard mode not just be a one hit kill affair but rather as a result of significantly smarter AI and a core game mechanic that demand skill from the gamer. 



Intrinsic said:

First and foremost, this is not about the order; though I'll admit this its failure to meet expectations along with a slew of other AAA games has brought about the creation of this thread. This is my take on the current gaming landscape.

I strongly believe that the core reason that games seem to lack innovation, or fail to deliver firmly falls on just one thing. Game design, particularly; game design towards a drive for accessibility. 

I started my gaming years in a time when the closest thing to multiplayer was someone else sitting on your couch and if you are really lucky a split screen for the most advanced multiplayer games. When practically every game was broken up into 6-10 levels and if you really knew what to do each level could be finished in under 10 minutes. In hindsight some of the best and most fun games I have played in my life are all based on that kinda game design. 

Double dragon, streets of rage, cybernator, hitman 1 and 2, tenchu, shinobi, ninja gaiden, god of war, devil may cry, shadow of the collosus, vanquish....etc

Those games all had a very basic point to point approach to their game design. And with games like shadow of the collosus, you can even see that an entire game can be made on just killing 16 enemies. 

So what went wrong? simply put, games got too easy. Not just in their execution, but also in all the advancements made towards making them more user friendly; check points, life regen..etc. And that is simply it, the biggest draw to gaming always used to be about that sense of accomplishment. Overcoming that challenge that would usually require a deep understanding of the game system or mechanic on display. 

The problem we have now, is that games no longer offer any real challenge. I firmly believe that its possible to make TPS for example, with AI so brutal and the cost of getting hit so high, that coming up against 3 enemies at once could be a game changing experience. That running from cover to cover could be made the scariest thing you have ever had to do. That its better pitting a gamer in a position where they would have to hone their skills to ration their few and sparse health packs for that inevitable boss battle than allow us just hide behind a wall for 10 seconds. We went from having 3 lives, to managing health packs to just chilling behind a wall for 10 seconds.

I believe that where games have truly failed today is not in innovation but in game design.

Don't get me wrong, game design has improved, just in the wrong direction. Its improved towards making games easier to play instead of improving towards making them more challenging. 

Once upon a time, no one ever really wanted to play a game on hard. Now, hard can usually be finished with an arm tied behind your back. 

What do you guys think? And how can we let developers know that this is what their problem really is. Most importantly, how cone don't they know this already?


You get 8 points for mentioning cybernator you would have gotten 10 if you also listed metal warriors.

OT, its mostly just hype, what I mean by that is that developers can get away with making any kind of turd mechanics once the game has good graphics and is properly hyped.

I have seen many members on this site get excited for games from footage shown of cutscenes alone, why in the world would anyone still get excited for cutscenes and absolutely no gameplay, what are we 10yr olds watching ads for ps1 games in the mid 90's.

If they can get excited for cutscenes so what if the game has bad mechanics? They are just happy they can watch the game on their own tv's while holding a controller, that alone is justification for the price, it doesn't matter how the game plays.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)