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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Does MS really deserve praise for "listening" to consumers ??

TheBlackNaruto on 22 September 2014
Dark_Feanor said:
TheBlackNaruto said:


Okay but yousaid the PS3 was the harbinger of ALL the problems that Sony is facing right now which is just not true in any shape or form. You alos never stated what he spun nor what anything you posted had to do with anything he said. Your post had just confused me because it seemed to be pointed at the wrong person or was just a random post.


OK, remove "all" for "most of".

And maybe "harbinger" wasn´t the most appropriated word.

I´m trying to say that most of Sony problems start with the PS3 and the errors they made with the console are similar with the errors in Computer, TV and Smartphone divisions.


Oh well yeah the PS3 indeed caused some serious problems there is no question about that at all.

On Topic again:

I am with Lewis who are all these peopel praising MS anyway? No they do nto derserve praise is still my answer but where are all these people that are praising them anyway?



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

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archer9234 on 22 September 2014
wary-wallaroo said:

No, they reacted to the market accordingly. Had their original vision sold, they wouldn't have backed down. And honestly, they don't seem to have changed much. They're still going with moneyhats, still trying to pay their way to the top. I still have yet to see any actual commitment to first party expansion. Yes, they removed the DRM, but that's about it (and they were pretty much forced to do so). So I don't think we should praise them for doing what they should have done from the start. If next gen they start out right, then they'll deserve the praise.

My biggest issue with giving them praise is that, to this day, they still blame the consumer for "not understanding" rather than admitting their mistake.

I like how the consumer can't "understand" them. But they did the same towards the consumer. A vision is a vison. But it doens't mean it's the right way for many various reason.



LudicrousSpeed on 22 September 2014
d21lewis said:
Customers speak with their wallets. Microsoft listened (actually before launch. They knew which way things were leaning and tried to fix it). But I haven't been on this site as much as I used to. I bought a PS4 and an Xbox One and both are pretty disappointing to me, thus far. I preferred the 360 to PS3 and preferred the PS2 to the original Xbox. I personally don't praise them (Nor do I praise my beloved Nintendo for doing what they should have been doing from the start). Since the OP is saying that EVERYBODY is jumping on the trend of praising M$, can somebody point out some examples of who these people are? I honestly don't see everybody praising them.

Bingo. Some ITT are caught up arguing lingo and semantics. The bottom line is consumers spoke with their intentions and MS listened by changing their own. Define it however you want. Businesses are in the business of making money and when something affects that money, that's when they listen.



plip.plop on 22 September 2014

I think MS would have personally preferred to go all digital this gen but this causes two big problems.

1 - It would have made alot of retailers mad cutting them out of alot of sales. Retailers are in the same boat with Console makers i.e. they make more money from game sales than from hardware sales.

2. By making an all in one media center, and not have the ability to watch movies on blu ray or dvd would not have sat well for the millions of consumers that still buy, and rent them. As most people don't want to re purchase content over.

MS could have avoided the whole DRM thing by going all digital for games. By allowing you to purchase online, or pick up a card at a retailer (xbox live gold cards) which would let the kinect scan the barcode, and download the game it could have made games cheaper for the xbox one by getting rid of a disc, and box. Of course there will be people that would hate not having a physical copy for resale or just the ability to have physical ownership of the game. But people I believe are more inclined if they see a benefit. No one complains that apps and games for tablets, and phones are pure digital. If MS did this resulting in lowering the cost of games by 25-30%. I think the adoption rate, and attach rate would be much higher.

I am personally finding myself holding off on buying games because I am hoping for sales. If games are already priced lower than my competitor day one I am more likely to make a impulse buy.

Also if they did add a blu-ray player that just allowed viewing of disc based movies. people would have been happy. As it would also fall in line with a all in one media player.



archer9234 on 22 September 2014
plip.plop said:

I think MS would have personally preferred to go all digital this gen but this causes two big problems.

1 - It would have made alot of retailers mad cutting them out of alot of sales. Retailers are in the same boat with Console makers i.e. they make more money from game sales than from hardware sales.

2. By making an all in one media center, and not have the ability to watch movies on blu ray or dvd would not have sat well for the millions of consumers that still buy, and rent them. As most people don't want to re purchase content over.

MS could have avoided the whole DRM thing by going all digital for games. By allowing you to purchase online, or pick up a card at a retailer (xbox live gold cards) which would let the kinect scan the barcode, and download the game it could have made games cheaper for the xbox one by getting rid of a disc, and box. Of course there will be people that would hate not having a physical copy for resale or just the ability to have physical ownership of the game. But people I believe are more inclined if they see a benefit. No one complains that apps and games for tablets, and phones are pure digital. If MS did this resulting in lowering the cost of games by 25-30%. I think the adoption rate, and attach rate would be much higher.

I am personally finding myself holding off on buying games because I am hoping for sales. If games are already priced lower than my competitor day one I am more likely to make a impulse buy.

Also if they did add a blu-ray player that just allowed viewing of disc based movies. people would have been happy. As it would also fall in line with a all in one media player.

I don't care about games and apps on my phone because their unimportant bs $1 things that I don't care to own. But full games, movies, tv shows, and music I do. So they aren't bought on the iTunes store.



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plip.plop on 22 September 2014
archer9234 said:
plip.plop said:

I think MS would have personally preferred to go all digital this gen but this causes two big problems.

1 - It would have made alot of retailers mad cutting them out of alot of sales. Retailers are in the same boat with Console makers i.e. they make more money from game sales than from hardware sales.

2. By making an all in one media center, and not have the ability to watch movies on blu ray or dvd would not have sat well for the millions of consumers that still buy, and rent them. As most people don't want to re purchase content over.

MS could have avoided the whole DRM thing by going all digital for games. By allowing you to purchase online, or pick up a card at a retailer (xbox live gold cards) which would let the kinect scan the barcode, and download the game it could have made games cheaper for the xbox one by getting rid of a disc, and box. Of course there will be people that would hate not having a physical copy for resale or just the ability to have physical ownership of the game. But people I believe are more inclined if they see a benefit. No one complains that apps and games for tablets, and phones are pure digital. If MS did this resulting in lowering the cost of games by 25-30%. I think the adoption rate, and attach rate would be much higher.

I am personally finding myself holding off on buying games because I am hoping for sales. If games are already priced lower than my competitor day one I am more likely to make a impulse buy.

Also if they did add a blu-ray player that just allowed viewing of disc based movies. people would have been happy. As it would also fall in line with a all in one media player.

I don't care about games and apps on my phone because their unimportant bs $1 things that I don't care to own. But full games, movies, tv shows, and music I do. So they aren't bought on the iTunes store.

Fair enough, but the iTunes store , and google play store does make money. Steam makes money selling games digital. Most people if not all on this website here Im sure watch their media off of hard drives, or some type of streaming service. But the general consumer that does not care about this stuff, rent and buy physical media.

Digital is the future.



archer9234 on 22 September 2014
plip.plop said:
archer9234 said:
plip.plop said:

I think MS would have personally preferred to go all digital this gen but this causes two big problems.

1 - It would have made alot of retailers mad cutting them out of alot of sales. Retailers are in the same boat with Console makers i.e. they make more money from game sales than from hardware sales.

2. By making an all in one media center, and not have the ability to watch movies on blu ray or dvd would not have sat well for the millions of consumers that still buy, and rent them. As most people don't want to re purchase content over.

MS could have avoided the whole DRM thing by going all digital for games. By allowing you to purchase online, or pick up a card at a retailer (xbox live gold cards) which would let the kinect scan the barcode, and download the game it could have made games cheaper for the xbox one by getting rid of a disc, and box. Of course there will be people that would hate not having a physical copy for resale or just the ability to have physical ownership of the game. But people I believe are more inclined if they see a benefit. No one complains that apps and games for tablets, and phones are pure digital. If MS did this resulting in lowering the cost of games by 25-30%. I think the adoption rate, and attach rate would be much higher.

I am personally finding myself holding off on buying games because I am hoping for sales. If games are already priced lower than my competitor day one I am more likely to make a impulse buy.

Also if they did add a blu-ray player that just allowed viewing of disc based movies. people would have been happy. As it would also fall in line with a all in one media player.

I don't care about games and apps on my phone because their unimportant bs $1 things that I don't care to own. But full games, movies, tv shows, and music I do. So they aren't bought on the iTunes store.

Fair enough, but the iTunes store , and google play store does make money. Steam makes money selling games digital. Most people if not all on this website here Im sure watch their media off of hard drives, or some type of streaming service. But the general consumer that does not care about this stuff, rent and buy physical media.

Digital is the future.

Yeah it's the future. A future where BOTH could stay existing. At some point sales can level off. And no matter how hard each side tries. They both stay alive. No one's denying digital. But don't tell people who want physical to take the road. That's was what MS did. And people said go fuck yourself.



plip.plop on 22 September 2014
archer9234 said:
plip.plop said:
archer9234 said:
plip.plop said:

I think MS would have personally preferred to go all digital this gen but this causes two big problems.

1 - It would have made alot of retailers mad cutting them out of alot of sales. Retailers are in the same boat with Console makers i.e. they make more money from game sales than from hardware sales.

2. By making an all in one media center, and not have the ability to watch movies on blu ray or dvd would not have sat well for the millions of consumers that still buy, and rent them. As most people don't want to re purchase content over.

MS could have avoided the whole DRM thing by going all digital for games. By allowing you to purchase online, or pick up a card at a retailer (xbox live gold cards) which would let the kinect scan the barcode, and download the game it could have made games cheaper for the xbox one by getting rid of a disc, and box. Of course there will be people that would hate not having a physical copy for resale or just the ability to have physical ownership of the game. But people I believe are more inclined if they see a benefit. No one complains that apps and games for tablets, and phones are pure digital. If MS did this resulting in lowering the cost of games by 25-30%. I think the adoption rate, and attach rate would be much higher.

I am personally finding myself holding off on buying games because I am hoping for sales. If games are already priced lower than my competitor day one I am more likely to make a impulse buy.

Also if they did add a blu-ray player that just allowed viewing of disc based movies. people would have been happy. As it would also fall in line with a all in one media player.

I don't care about games and apps on my phone because their unimportant bs $1 things that I don't care to own. But full games, movies, tv shows, and music I do. So they aren't bought on the iTunes store.

Fair enough, but the iTunes store , and google play store does make money. Steam makes money selling games digital. Most people if not all on this website here Im sure watch their media off of hard drives, or some type of streaming service. But the general consumer that does not care about this stuff, rent and buy physical media.

Digital is the future.

Yeah it's the future. A future where BOTH could stay existing. At some point sales can level off. And no matter how hard each side tries. They both stay alive. No one's denying digital. But don't tell people who want physical to take the road. That's was what MS did. And people said go fuck yourself.

Do you also feel this way about PS now? besides their (not set in stone) horrible pricing, How do you feel about that service?



yvanjean on 22 September 2014
Viltgance said:

Ok so lately everyone has been jumping on the new bandwagon of giving Microsoft praise for listening to the consumer.   But do they really deserve any praise at all?  I can already see the hate coming from a mile away but I personally don't think they do.  In reality, when a company(or a human being) has their back against the wall they will do whatever it takes to get out of the situation.  Whether it be,  kiss ass, lie, cheat, steal, bribe, suck hole, toss money around....pretty much anything goes.

Basically the only viable option for MS to do was to try and repair their broken image and to kiss consumers asses a whole lot and to shower them with gifts and make it look like they care about the little guys.

You be the judge

When Microsoft first announce the Xbox one people din't like the DRM and always online but there was some interesting features like familly share and digital library that is not tied to your consoles that would of been cool. They did well to go back to what consumers wanted but family share and digital library had to be remove for now.

Sony react to the microsoft conference and pulled the PS4 eye from the system, lowered the price and DRM was dropped and removed with a day one update from the PS4. They simply benefited from annoucing their console after Microsoft and remove anything that could create a backlash. 

I think any gamer that wants great game and new IP are crazy for not supporting DRM. They don't have enough forseight to see the damage that resale of used games is doing to the industry and the end result is we get less content. We will see less and less AAA new IP.

 

 



archer9234 on 22 September 2014
plip.plop said:
archer9234 said:
plip.plop said:
archer9234 said:
plip.plop said:

I think MS would have personally preferred to go all digital this gen but this causes two big problems.

1 - It would have made alot of retailers mad cutting them out of alot of sales. Retailers are in the same boat with Console makers i.e. they make more money from game sales than from hardware sales.

2. By making an all in one media center, and not have the ability to watch movies on blu ray or dvd would not have sat well for the millions of consumers that still buy, and rent them. As most people don't want to re purchase content over.

MS could have avoided the whole DRM thing by going all digital for games. By allowing you to purchase online, or pick up a card at a retailer (xbox live gold cards) which would let the kinect scan the barcode, and download the game it could have made games cheaper for the xbox one by getting rid of a disc, and box. Of course there will be people that would hate not having a physical copy for resale or just the ability to have physical ownership of the game. But people I believe are more inclined if they see a benefit. No one complains that apps and games for tablets, and phones are pure digital. If MS did this resulting in lowering the cost of games by 25-30%. I think the adoption rate, and attach rate would be much higher.

I am personally finding myself holding off on buying games because I am hoping for sales. If games are already priced lower than my competitor day one I am more likely to make a impulse buy.

Also if they did add a blu-ray player that just allowed viewing of disc based movies. people would have been happy. As it would also fall in line with a all in one media player.

I don't care about games and apps on my phone because their unimportant bs $1 things that I don't care to own. But full games, movies, tv shows, and music I do. So they aren't bought on the iTunes store.

Fair enough, but the iTunes store , and google play store does make money. Steam makes money selling games digital. Most people if not all on this website here Im sure watch their media off of hard drives, or some type of streaming service. But the general consumer that does not care about this stuff, rent and buy physical media.

Digital is the future.

Yeah it's the future. A future where BOTH could stay existing. At some point sales can level off. And no matter how hard each side tries. They both stay alive. No one's denying digital. But don't tell people who want physical to take the road. That's was what MS did. And people said go fuck yourself.

Do you also feel this way about PS now? besides their (not set in stone) horrible pricing, How do you feel about that service?

I don't care about the service. Because I don't care for streaming in general. Ignoring my internet being crap. I just don't like relying on outside things for everything. I buy the game, I have it forever. Without any major potentional issues. Besides aging hardware issues. Which I repair when needed. And of course people will say: "digital is so much better for this, this, and this". Sure is. That's why my CD,DVD,BD are all ripped to my itunes. But I have full control over how, and where those things go. And I use digital when I'm outside. At home, I use a disc. Space is space. It's just reduced. HDD's will be plugged into all your USB ports in the future. And you're back to dealing with the annoyances.

"But burglars!!!" You password can be stolen, if the company gets hacked, or you use something stupid. Both outcomes are equally rare. "But I don't have to disc swap!" Sure, for now. When games get bigger and bigger. You'll be deleting or changing out HDD. Same issues. Just different situation. Even when SDD becomes a norm, and you don't really have to worry about HDD failing from the mechnical parts. A SSD can still get corrupted and has to be reformated. Have fun downloading that 2TB of media. Again, rare. But you'll be cursing when it happens. I don't think any internet is gonna love 100 games being downloaded at the same time. If that happend with me.

At least I could grab and organise what I have to do in a pile. Juggling files from multiple menus in the UI is harder then you think. When you're siffting through the purchased list. Sure, you can backup your HDD. I do it too. But again, more HDD's. More space again. I upgraded my PS4 HDD to 1TB. I only have 4 games. That's around 100GB of installing, I'd have to redo. With my discs 20 minutes. The DVD /BD shelfs I have in my room would be equal to 10TB of data. That's 3 HDD of now. That will just increase. Yes, you can just keep buying HDD's as they get bigger. Then moving the files will take hours. And tons of money being used.

Also, streaming and digital ownership has unnaswered questions in the future of the devices. Will I be able to access these things in10 years? Will the game be avaible all the time? I do keep my consoles. And play them. I do not like rebuying the products over again, on different devices. Because their severvice has ended. And my PS3 HDD has failed. These are my personal factors why I don't buy things exclusvily digital. Plus, why use UV or digital copy. When those files are usually at crap bitrates. When i can rip my stuff, and decide if I want this episode not deinteraced. So I don't see horrible Jaggies.

But I'm in no way saying people that: don't care to own, never keep their systems, and just rent, have no right to love those services and features. I just don't like it when people belittle my side. And digital can help in a lot of areas. Screw Madden yearly crap. Buy one game and make every future year a DLC update.A disc drive in no way interferes with the digital side of consoles. MS choose to be asshats with the Family Share plan. Can anyone give me a realistic explination of why they couldn't have this running at launch? When they removed all that tons of other DRM before hand, from the hate. They obiously can change huge things when it affects their pockets.