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Forums - Politics Discussion - Bruce Rauner wants to end minimum wage in illinois. Don't vote for this guy!

Legally he can't do squat because of the federal minimum wage.

If you refuse to vote for him solely because of that, I would suggest some political science classes at your local community college as well as outside research on each candidate.



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Acevil said:


Minimum wage can work for more socialistic leaning countries just perfectly. The problem with America is that it is two sided, and that both sides generally don't get along unless they have common enemy. Actually a lack of minimum wage most likely would work in a socialistic society as well, as they would most likely want everyone to not be poor as a reflection of the society. 

The reason why the minimum wage concept exists, is because of how much labor was abused in the early development of nation. Infact you could look at developing nations to see exactly what that means. 

Concepts like minimum wage, overtime, vacation time, labour laws exist so that no organization can abuse their employees like they have in the past era. 

Add: Also the two sides doesn't necessarily mean Republican vs Democrat or South vs North. It is way more complicated.

No that would not work in a socialist society. You work, you pay taxes, those taxes go to necessary things that are for the good of the country.... health care, schools, infrastructure, helping your less than priviledged families and people. 

If you take away minimum wage in a socialistic country you open it up for faulty business practices and shady business owners. There is a reason wage laws exist. It's to prevent business owners from paying you 50 cents on the hour for the same work someone who gets 20 dollars on the hour to do. 



RCTjunkie said:
Legally he can't do squat because of the federal minimum wage.

If you refuse to vote for him solely because of that, I would suggest some political science classes at your local community college as well as outside research on each candidate.

it speaks towards their attitudes towards the poor and the working class and worship of the free market as some sort of cure-all, which in this day and age is reason aplenty to not vote for someone.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

HBninjaX said:

Why? Wage laws are stupid. Why should a bunch of corrupt politicians decide what private business owners should pay? Let the market decide. Switzerland has no wage laws and they have a low 2.3% unemployment rate.

If a job pays too low go work somewhere else.  No one is forcing you to work there.  In fact if another job is paying more then they'll attract more workers than the place that is paying less


Right. Because any business owner, anywhere, should be able to get away with paying people what are NOT livable wages these days. Don't kid yourselves. If some of these fucks could, they'd pay people $2 an hour. Or less. I'm sorry, but the minimum wage exists for a reason. Prices go up, inflation happens, whether wages go up or NOT. But I suppose people don't deserve the right to make a livable wage? I'm sorry, but they absolutely do.



DevilRising said:
HBninjaX said:

Why? Wage laws are stupid. Why should a bunch of corrupt politicians decide what private business owners should pay? Let the market decide. Switzerland has no wage laws and they have a low 2.3% unemployment rate.

If a job pays too low go work somewhere else.  No one is forcing you to work there.  In fact if another job is paying more then they'll attract more workers than the place that is paying less


Right. Because any business owner, anywhere, should be able to get away with paying people what are NOT livable wages these days. Don't kid yourselves. If some of these fucks could, they'd pay people $2 an hour. Or less. I'm sorry, but the minimum wage exists for a reason. Prices go up, inflation happens, whether wages go up or NOT. But I suppose people don't deserve the right to make a livable wage? I'm sorry, but they absolutely do.

To be fair to the Austrians, they believe that prices would drop to match lowered wages.


Their problem is believing that the phenomenon of sticky prices is due to government interference in the market, and not the mysterious, gravity-like force that thwarts Hayekian economics.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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MARCUSDJACKSON said:
MTZehvor said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
MTZehvor said:
Trouble with minimum wage is people simply aren't meant to live on it. Raising the minimum wage does nothing in the long run as it does nothing to permanently shift real wages. People working those jobs will end up in just as poor a position as they were beforehand once prices adjust, with nothing to show for it but inflation. It's a good intentioned solution to a major problem, and one that certainly should get more attention, but that's the best I can say about it.

Anyway, regardless of what the guy thinks, why would you want everyone to vote against him? Just because he holds a certain view (or held, I suppose)?


ok i was thinking this but it still leaves the door open for companiese to pay less than whats already offerd. i know that's highly unlikely but the ones that pay minimum wage now, could pay less because there's no minimum. it's like how some people have to work 2 and 3 jobs just to make ends meet when 1 should provide all you need, but that's just wishful thinking.

It's certainly possible, but the flip side of that is that companies may also offer more jobs with lower pay than they would otherwise. Trying to tell the free market that its prices (based on supply and demand) are incorrect is dangerous, because then you rob people of some (admittedly lower paying) opportunities that they could then use as a stepping stone to a better job.

on the fence

well let me give you some real world examples. I work at a restaurant, every time minimun wage goes up, so does the age of our employees, and their skill level. To achieve that I have to let go the worst workers, not because they are bad people, not because they wouldn't someday be able to do the job, but they aren't fast enough to make them worth keeping at $9 an hour. I just let three people go, and their hours will be split between the other workers or gone all together. Those 3 people now lost their chance for free on th job training, and work experience. Had I not been able to find faster people we would have looked at more automation (replace workers with equiptemnt). Minimun wage hurts the least skilled workers the most. Not to mention (dosn't effect us since we smaller business) but with Obamacare and other regulations in place its not worth it to work employees over 25/30 hrs a week, than a new set of regulation kicks in and ech employee costs more. the end result, most fast food/restaurant workers have two job to get 40 hrs. I would love to work people more hours, and they want to work them, but we cant pay $14.50 an hour for basic work (time and a half for over time). Over regulation is killing the creation of business and jobs.



Anyone who would vote for Pat Quinn again after what he's done to Illinois needs to seek treatment. It's like how people refused to even consider McCain because of Bush... but Quinn is ACTUALLY the same guy! Don't buy into the propaganda of political ads, for either one of them. His record is what matters.



Mr Khan said:
RCTjunkie said:
Legally he can't do squat because of the federal minimum wage.

If you refuse to vote for him solely because of that, I would suggest some political science classes at your local community college as well as outside research on each candidate.

it speaks towards their attitudes towards the poor and the working class and worship of the free market as some sort of cure-all, which in this day and age is reason aplenty to not vote for someone.

minimum wage and a (close to)free market go together well.   we need some standards to maintain a working society, thats why u cant sell ratpoisoncookies or dangerous electronics, and nobody brags about that beeing against the free market.

the problem in the western world is that some dont wanna have a free market, they want to exploit the society with tricks, and want money from the taxpayer without reasons.

we in germany hadnt a minimum wage till last year, and a lot of people in work had to get welfare checks because they only got 5 or 6 euros per hour. now with 8,50 minimum wage u only need welfare while u working when u have a big familie, thats fine for me, kids are expensiv, and we cant just let em starv or just let the middleclass and above have children.

and not a single job was lost... why? because the labor price doesnt realy matter if u need the work to be done.  and the state has more money because it has to pay less welfare(its just 350 something euros(thats enough for a living in germany, food is realy cheap)+ rent+ intern cost of the state, but it ads up if 1 million people doenst need it).

 

and no i dont get minimum wage. i get welfare because im a old grumpy guy that worked for 50 year in a steal mill, i mean a student that gets 10€ a hour for sitting a the counter at a supermarket to bay my rent and the 600€ a year for college(well not realy for college but for studentfund(cheap food at the mensa, partys,free sport,cheaper fees at opera, theater etc.) and the card for the train,bus,tram, etc(yes we can use busses for free in the town we study in and trains in an area of 250km+-  oh and bicycles)



I seem to recall when Gordon Brown brought in the UK minimum wage, more salaries dropped down to it than were increased due to previously being below it. Couple in the free movement of the EU and its been a recipe for a serious cost of living crisis.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Im no economist but wouldn't lowering the minimum wage just result in the poor getting really, really screwed over.

I've worked in IT for about 10 years and have received exactly 1 pay cut to my wages and never any raises despite how well the company is doing. Every year benefits get worse. Every year cost of living goes up. Now I do have the option to switch jobs, but with each tier of job I get to there is typically less of that job available. Im ok because I make decent money well over minimum.

For companies paying low wages, entry jobs, fast food, janitorial, ect what reason should they pay more than the absolute minimum for people to live in absolute poverty? Yes managers will make more but the grunts will work because they dont want to turn to crime and do not want to starve. Crime will likely rise but as long as it does not effect the bottom line of the low wage job suppliers have no incentive to pay more than the absolute minimum they can to get desperate workers to do their work. I dont understand how having no minimum wage helps anyone other than the already wealthy.



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