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Scotland to leave the UK?

Forums - Politics Discussion - Scotland to leave the UK?

Should Scotland leave the union? If yes or no please say why.

Yes 152 43.80%
 
No 143 41.21%
 
It does not matter 26 7.49%
 
I dont understand 26 7.49%
 
Total:347
Serious_frusting said:

Its a real hot debate. If you have been keeping track the polls are showing it can swing one way or the other. If Scotland do vote to leave the union then the UK is going to lose like 7 million or so people.

The population in Scotland is currently about 5.3 million people.

Serious_frusting said:

I have always seen the welsh, scotish and english culture as one. 

Well, that may be the case for you, but within the respective countries I can pretty much guarantee that very few, close to none, would agree with you. I'm Scottish, and I feel the culture I grew up with is quite different to that found in England and Wales, though we do share many values in common. In much the same way that the culture I grew up with is very different to that found in the United States, though we do share many values in common. For obvious reasons.

Serious_frusting said:

I mean the royal fam have scottish roots afterall.

And that's a reason the cultures of Scotland, England, and Wales are 'as one'? Really? I fail to see the connection.

Serious_frusting said:

I am just wondering what others are thinking about this vote.

I think it's an inevitable referendum considering the politics of the UK for the last fifty years or so, though I'm still surprised it happened when it did. The Scottish Parliament's voting system was specifically designed to make it very difficult for a single party to acheive an overall majority. The SNP still did it, though. I was stunned at the time.

Serious_frusting said:

I think it is wrong that scotch people who live in England have no vote about it.

I have sympathy for this view. However, in practice it turns out to be almost impossible to do it any other way. Residence was determined to be the only way to ensure fairness for a variety of reasons, and was agreed by both parliaments to be the best option available (although, be aware, there are some exceptions -- the military has some, for example). So, if one wants to vote about the future of the country, one has to live in the country (and be born in the UK or EU, and be 16+). Much the same system was used for the 1997 referendum asking whether to establish the Scottish Parliament or not, and in the 1979 referendum before that. It has history.

Serious_frusting said:

I would like to here anyones opinion on this.

Me too. :D



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XanderXT said:
Being part British myself, it's strange on why they want right now to become independent.

It's not a 'right now' matter. The desire for Scottish independence is old. The opportunity for this referendum arose because the SNP managed a majority at the last Scottish parliamentary election, and were in a position to push it forward. So they did. And we have a vote coming up.



Hapimeses said:
XanderXT said:
Being part British myself, it's strange on why they want right now to become independent.

It's not a 'right now' matter. The desire for Scottish independence is old. The opportunity for this referendum arose because the SNP managed a majority at the last Scottish parliamentary election, and were in a position to push it forward. So they did. And we have a vote coming up.

I presume he means now as in after after the ecomonic issues. If UK and world economy was strong, lets say like it was in the late 90s, many might not have had as much concern of uncertainy as they do now.



Hmm, pie.

Scottish independence would be great for me personally. I make rings out of coins (shameless plug: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheRingTree) and I get asked for Scotland a lot. It is unfortunate (for me) that they use British currency and don't mint their own.

It is equally unfortunate that everyone in Europe uses the Euro. The pre-Euro coins were so unique and beautiful - the Euro is just, well..... boring.



MoHasanie said:
I think Scottish people are gonna make a huge mistake if they decide to vote for independence.

Can you explain why?



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Mr Khan said:
I think it's silly, honestly. Scotland's got the best of both worlds, a devolved parliament which decides on most things but war and how to manage the pound sterling, without having to fend for themselves.

Sometimes independence is the right choice, but not all the time, and really not here (the Scots'll learn that the hard way. Being an independent nation under the sterling, or joining the Eurozone, will be bad juju for them economically).

If that was the case, there would be far fewer people in Scotland looking to vote yes, and the leaders of the three primary parties would not be offering the Scottish parliament significantly more powers. As it stands, the devolved parliament holds much less power than you suggest, requires Westminster approval for any further powers, and can also be dissolved at the whim of Westminster without any legal argument against it. Yes, the current situation for Scotland does have some advantages, but it does not have the best of both worlds by some significant measure.



MoHasanie said:

Metrium said:

 Yep :) Why would I care otherwise? lol :P

 

Quebec would struggle on its own. The population is just 8 million and its aging. Many english speakers would also leave the province if it became independant. You've got the highest taxes in North America, which would only go up and most of your trade would be with Ontario. The federal government also gives you a lot of money so you'd lose that. So really, there's no point in separating cause you will end up hurting yourselves. 


The aging population is no longer true since a few years now, since the last 5years or so our population has been growing. And I don't see how a population of only 8million is so bad since alot of country is even lower.

If these english speakers feel so intimidated by a strong french culture and refuse to assimilate themselves to the point where theyd rather leave, so be it. Montréal is already filled with english speakers that refuse to speak or learn french despite the french majority. They see themselves above ''the indigenous'' to learn our language, forcing the majority around them to speak their language. I would'nt mind seeing these ppl go. And these are not at all every english speakers that are this way, a minority of them, but these are the majority that would leave. Also, lots of them talk about it, it's easy to talk about threatening of leaving, but if québec would really become independant and it would be time to turn these threats into actions, most of them would'nt bother.

The federal government does'nt ''give'' us money. We the people of Québec pay federal taxs, that's what those taxs are for. Federal taxs that we would stop paying if we were independant. Probably we would'nt pay less taxs since we would probably still pay the same amount but this time to the province. The difference is that instead of paying that federal tax that partly goes back to us, but a big part also goes to oil sands, submarines and other things that quebecers don't care about, that federal tax would entirely go to us.

I think as we speak, our bigest trade partner are the USA but I'm not sure enough to call it a fact since I could be wrong, we sell them alot of hydro electricity and Québec has so many ressources to trade. We have hydro electricity, tons of minerals in the north, apples, diary farms etc.



 

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kowenicki said:

That would not be their decision.  Sterling isnt their currency to keep, (Bank of England has already said "no chance").  They would have to apply to join the Euro and they would fail every economic test to do so.

Also... Wales get independence!? lol. 

OT

If they do vote yes then at least as an Englishman I will get MY independence back. 

Seriously. Turkeys dont vote for Christmas unless they are very, very stupid... it will be a NO vote.

 

That's not quite correct.  It is Westminster politicians that back the No campaign that have ruled out a currency union, not the Bank of England.

"Any arrangement to retain sterling in an independent Scotland would need to be negotiated between the Westminster and Scottish Parliaments. The Bank of England would implement whatever monetary arrangements were put in place." Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of England 29th January 2014

On a more general point, of all the reasons Scots will have for voting Yes or No, no-one will be doing so because they don't like the Welsh, or the English, or the Northern Irish.  They will be making their decision based on what they feel is best for them and their family.

Kowenicki - I'm not sure when you feel your independence was taken away from you, but it sounds like you hold the Scots responsible.  I don't know why but if you want to petition your MP for an independence vote for England I'd be happy to support you, as would most Scots.  We don't want to deny anybody else their liberty, we are just exercising the opportunity we have been given to choose the path that is right for us.

I hope you and the rest of the UK remain our good friends and neighbours whatever the outcome.

Edit - Oh, and thank you for facepalming the scotch reference. :)



Conegamer said:
Having watched and followed through the referendum most of the Yes votes are through belief and general dislike of the English, concentrated by Salmond and the SNP.

This is wrong. I'm not sure if you have it so wrong because of the media you consume, or because you have an inherent bias against Scottish motivations.

Conegamer said:
Very very few Yes voters are doing it because it'll be better economically or because Scots would be better off, because odds are that won't be the case.

I feel this shows how little you are truly aware of the debate in Scotland just now. Almost every voter I've spoken to, both Yes and No, is voting with the economy forefront in their mind. I don't think many Yes voters believe they will be individually better off (although, of course, some do, and sometimes for good reason), but most do believe the society as a whole could be considerably richer, largely because the matters that are most important to Scots will be catered to, rather than being side-lined as they often are currently. There are many ways of being 'better off'.

Conegamer said:
It's the same thing as in this thread. People like throwing the idea of independence about but when it comes down to the finer details, often it just doesn't make sense to be in a worse position than what they are in now. 

That's how it feels for this, and if Scotland vote yes (which still seems highly unlikely IMO) then they will find that out the hard way.

Insert 'devolved rule' where you say 'independence', and we have the same argument that was deployed against the devolved Scottish parliament. However, talk to anyone up here, and even those originally strongly against the devolved parliament now agree it was for the best. After all, all our pensioners have free bus passes to travel anywhere in Scotland, all prescriptions in Scotland are free, our university education is free, and so much more.

There is a reason many Scots are voting for SNP these days (and, as an aside, I've never voted for their party) -- when in power they have, broadly speaking, delivered on their promises. That's kinda rare in politics.



kowenicki said:

Sterling isnt their currency to keep, (Bank of England has already said "no chance").  They would have to apply to join the Euro and they would fail every economic test to do so.

Not true on both counts. The Bank of England has not said 'no chance', only politicians have done that. It isn't the Bank of England's decision, after all. Mark Carney did say that he believed some sovereign powers would have to be relinquished if Scotland were to join a currency union, something the SNP, of course, denied would have to be the case. This Guardian article nicely sums that debate up (and is a useful reference as the article originally falsely claimed the Mark Carney claimed a currency union would be 'unworkable', but was edited later): Clicky click

As for the Euro: there is nobody seriously saying Scotland 'would have to apply' to join the Euro. The Euro is not currently on the table at all.

kowenicki said:

If they do vote yes then at least as an Englishman I will get MY independence back. 

I'm interested to read why you think that.

kowenicki said:

Seriously. Turkeys dont vote for Christmas unless they are very, very stupid... it will be a NO vote.

The first half is extraordinarily offensive. The second half, though, I do agree with, it will likely be a no vote.