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fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:

jejeje, lies?

maybe you should look at the window

this aint a lie dude

http://siliconvalleywriting.com/Bob%20Peterson%20sample_Embedded%20DRAM%20for%20Xbox%20360.pdf

 

that is true info, just look inside

xbox 360 edram is made of 4 maros of 500mhz each of 1024 bits each and of 2.5MB per macro, just do the math, wii u has 8 macros, that ant lie, just check the chipworks photo and do the math

 

8macros*550mhz*1024bits/8*1000=563.2GB/s

Gee if this were true then I guess microsoft was stupid for using eSRAM ... *rolls eyes* /sarcasm

Don't pull numbers up from anywhere. (This is why beyond 3D banned you and what made you cause a stir with Pemalite.)

 

wii u edram is made from the same guys who made the xbox 360 edram, so considering somethin like 1024bits per macro after 7 years still looks low after what renesas said about wii u edram packing the best technology from that nec plant,a nd shinen also said that wii u edram provides so much bandwidth to the point of being scary, so i dont think 256GB/s of the 360 edram is scary, but something between 500 and the terabyte might be. Come on, even sony said that was aiming for an edram of a terabyte of bandwidth

 

wii u edram may have a bandwidth of 500 to 1 terabyte with edram, but that aint power so it isnt going to make it stronger than ps4 or xbox one, but if you cleverly use the edram you can take profit of the adventage of tesselation with displacements which would give a boost in graphics, an this also applies for the xbox one esram cause is similar, as for ps4, well since it uses gddr5 which has more latency and less speed than edram then it will not be able to use tesselation+displacements as eficiently as xbox one and wiiu, but will still league a step ahead of wii u but as for xbox one they might give the same results

Yeah, you are a liar ... 

What does info about the xbox 360 have to do with the WII U ? 

How are they made by the same guys when the xbox 360's eDRAM was designed by the guys at NEC Electronics and the WII U's eDRAM was designed by Renesas Electronics ? (See this is another one of your lies again.) What NEC plant LOL ? It's manufactured by TSMC. Do you even know what your talking about ? I want to know shin'en's EXACT WORDS, not some sprinkled up shit that you made up. Except it WASN'T 256 GB/s so get that through your thick skull and stop lying. What Sony said was a god damned EXAMPLE, not an actual implimentation that they were aiming for. 

Tessellation performance has absolutely NOTHING to do with the interconnect bandwidth of eDRAM. Jesus, the rest of your post makes me laugh about your explanation on the mechanics of tessellation. You haven't the slightest clue as to how tessellation works. 


pfff, dude you should read what you post

 

TSMC manufacturing the edram, really?

here

http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/08/04/nintendo-and-the-wii-u-may-be-in-trouble-due-to-closure-of-vital-semiconductor-factory/

"

Nintendo and the Wii U May Be in Trouble due to Closure of Vital Semiconductor Factory

by Giuseppe Nelva on August 4, 2013 4:19 AM 130 

There may be more trouble on the horizon for the already slow-selling Wii U. On Friday the prominent semiconductor manufacturer Renesas Electronics posted its quarterly financial report, together with notice of extraordinary loss and a press release about an impending restructuring of the company.

As part of that restructuring Renesas, that merged with NEC Electronics in 2012, announced that it decided to close four semiconductor plants in Japan within 2-3 years, including the state-of-the-art factory based in Tsuruoka, Yamagata Prefecture  (as reported by the Wall Street Journal), and this may spell trouble for Nintendo and the Wii U.

The reason is quite simple. The closing factory was responsible for manufacturing the console’s Embedded DRAM, that is quite properly defined the “life stone” of the console.

Nintendo told the Japanese Magazine Weekly Diamond that “the closure of the plant won’t have immediate effects on the production of the Wii U”, but the outlook of things isn’t too positive for the future.

Nintendo could try to contract another company to produce the component, but there are circumstances that make it difficult. According to a Renesas executive the production of that semiconductor was the result of the “secret sauce” and state-of-the-art know-how part of the NEC heritage of the Tsuruoka plant, making production elsewhere difficult. In order to restart mass production in a different factory redesigning the component may be necessary.

"

 

except wasnt 256GB/s?

really?

here

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/4/3

"

The one key area of bandwidth, that has caused a fair quantity of controversy in its inclusion of specifications, is that of bandwidth available from the ROPS to the eDRAM, which stands at 256GB/s.

"

 

or as the article from gaming blend says, here

http://siliconvalleywriting.com/Bob%20Peterson%20sample_Embedded%20DRAM%20for%20Xbox%20360.pdf

"

As Xbox Product Group corporate vice president Todd Holmdahl explains, “Without NEC Electronics embedded DRAM on the GPU and the huge 256-Gbytes/second dedicated bus from the GPU core to the eDRAM, it is impossible to render true next-generation scene complexity at high-resolution with anti-aliasing.” Xbox 360 supports all games with this dramatic performance in high definition TV at 16:9, 720p and 1080i. A look at the GPU shows why it needs such an outrageous memory bandwidth.

The 500-MHz custom ATI graphics processor—fabricated by NEC Electronics—includes 48-way-parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines and a unified shader architecture. Using external memory, the GPU would be limited to a 32- or 64-bit interface. The NEC Electronics eDRAM expands the on-chip memory interface past 1000 bits in width to support the GPU’s 256-Gbytes/second bandwidth between the graphics pipelines and memory.The 10-Mbyte eDRAM block consists of several 20-Mbit macros, each capable of supporting 500-MHz clock speeds. The macro was developed by NEC Electronics, and it offers versatile design parameters for easy integration with other intellectual property (IP).

"

 

or even here(page 5)

http://meseec.ce.rit.edu/551-projects/spring2013/2-3.pdf

 

or from ign

http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/05/20/e3-2005-microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3?page=3

"

Bandwidth 
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.

"

 

didnt you read the full article?

here

uff

 

Only the ROPS have full access to the edram 256GB/s of bandwidth(as byond3d explained) casue the rops and the edram are both on the same die chip, only the GPU is on a different die chip so it has to communicate with the edram with an external bus of 32GB/s, but since the edram+rops main use is for framebu tffer it doest give that much bottleneck. As for wii u, the whole gpu and the edram are in the same die chip, menang that wii u gu has full access to the edram bandwidth, this sounds logical cause the edram wasnt designed just for framebuffer but also for textures, zbuffer and vertex texture fetch data(already agmecube used embedded memory for both framebuffer, zbuffer and textures so this comes as no surprise)

 

 

edram bandwidth and latecy isnt important for teselation and displacement?

seriously, have you even read the article or only the title?

here(pages 10,16,,17,42, 43,73,80, 94, 95,)

http://www.graphics.stanford.edu/~niessner/papers/2013/thesis/niessner2013thesis.pdf

 

 

seriously dude, just read



Around the Network

compare Wii U with the last gen console. R u kidding me ? what a failure ... -_-



megafenix said:


pfff, dude you should read what you post

Coming from you, eh ?

 

TSMC manufacturing the edram, really?

No duh, who else can do it other than global foundries ? Where the hell do you think these VLSI ICs come from ? 

here

http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/08/04/nintendo-and-the-wii-u-may-be-in-trouble-due-to-closure-of-vital-semiconductor-factory/

"

Nintendo and the Wii U May Be in Trouble due to Closure of Vital Semiconductor Factory

by Giuseppe Nelva on August 4, 2013 4:19 AM 130 

There may be more trouble on the horizon for the already slow-selling Wii U. On Friday the prominent semiconductor manufacturer Renesas Electronics posted its quarterly financial report, together with notice of extraordinary loss and a press release about an impending restructuring of the company.

As part of that restructuring Renesas, that merged with NEC Electronics in 2012, announced that it decided to close four semiconductor plants in Japan within 2-3 years, including the state-of-the-art factory based in Tsuruoka, Yamagata Prefecture  (as reported by the Wall Street Journal), and this may spell trouble for Nintendo and the Wii U.

The reason is quite simple. The closing factory was responsible for manufacturing the console’s Embedded DRAM, that is quite properly defined the “life stone” of the console.

Nintendo told the Japanese Magazine Weekly Diamond that “the closure of the plant won’t have immediate effects on the production of the Wii U”, but the outlook of things isn’t too positive for the future.

Nintendo could try to contract another company to produce the component, but there are circumstances that make it difficult. According to a Renesas executive the production of that semiconductor was the result of the “secret sauce” and state-of-the-art know-how part of the NEC heritage of the Tsuruoka plant, making production elsewhere difficult. In order to restart mass production in a different factory redesigning the component may be necessary.

"

That's a worthless article ... We don't even have a PR statement from Renesas claiming that it was due to low console sales.

except wasnt 256GB/s?

really?

here

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/4/3

"

The one key area of bandwidth, that has caused a fair quantity of controversy in its inclusion of specifications, is that of bandwidth available from the ROPS to the eDRAM, which stands at 256GB/s.

"

Interconnect bandwidth means jack shit ... What's most important is main memory bandwidth. It is the DRAM that bridges the gap, not eDRAM.

or as the article from gaming blend says, here

http://siliconvalleywriting.com/Bob%20Peterson%20sample_Embedded%20DRAM%20for%20Xbox%20360.pdf

"

As Xbox Product Group corporate vice president Todd Holmdahl explains, “Without NEC Electronics embedded DRAM on the GPU and the huge 256-Gbytes/second dedicated bus from the GPU core to the eDRAM, it is impossible to render true next-generation scene complexity at high-resolution with anti-aliasing.” Xbox 360 supports all games with this dramatic performance in high definition TV at 16:9, 720p and 1080i. A look at the GPU shows why it needs such an outrageous memory bandwidth.

The 500-MHz custom ATI graphics processor—fabricated by NEC Electronics—includes 48-way-parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines and a unified shader architecture. Using external memory, the GPU would be limited to a 32- or 64-bit interface. The NEC Electronics eDRAM expands the on-chip memory interface past 1000 bits in width to support the GPU’s 256-Gbytes/second bandwidth between the graphics pipelines and memory.The 10-Mbyte eDRAM block consists of several 20-Mbit macros, each capable of supporting 500-MHz clock speeds. The macro was developed by NEC Electronics, and it offers versatile design parameters for easy integration with other intellectual property (IP).

"

Ok the first thing that marketing got wrong is that's between the ROPS and eDRAM. The second thing is that it's 32 GB/s between the eDRAM and GPU. 

or even here(page 5)

http://meseec.ce.rit.edu/551-projects/spring2013/2-3.pdf

or from ign

http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/05/20/e3-2005-microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3?page=3

Thanks for the worthless links ...

"

Bandwidth 
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.

"

Thanks for major nelson marketing ...

didnt you read the full article?

Do I have to when i know where your going and you still don't get it ? 

here

uff

 

Only the ROPS have full access to the edram 256GB/s of bandwidth(as byond3d explained) casue the rops and the edram are both on the same die chip, only the GPU is on a different die chip so it has to communicate with the edram with an external bus of 32GB/s, but since the edram+rops main use is for framebu tffer it doest give that much bottleneck. As for wii u, the whole gpu and the edram are in the same die chip, menang that wii u gu has full access to the edram bandwidth

@Bold No

Thanks for owning youself. The only way to get higher bandwidth is to either blow it on a bigger memory controller or increase the memory clocks.

edram bandwidth and latecy isnt important for teselation and displacement?

seriously, have you even read the article or only the title?

here(pages 10,16,,17,42, 43,73,80, 94, 95,)

http://www.graphics.stanford.edu/~niessner/papers/2013/thesis/niessner2013thesis.pdf

Don't you dare go about questioning one of the more experienced in the master race. This is the exact reason why you got banned on beyond 3D for spouting shit like this. eDRAM bandwidth means jack shit for tessellation performance. Tessellation is dependent on GEOMETRY ENGINES. 

seriously dude, just read

Anymore lies to add to the disscussion ?



fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:


pfff, dude you should read what you post

Coming from you, eh ?

 

TSMC manufacturing the edram, really?

No duh, who else can do it other than global foundries ? Where the hell do you think these VLSI ICs come from ? 

here

http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/08/04/nintendo-and-the-wii-u-may-be-in-trouble-due-to-closure-of-vital-semiconductor-factory/

"

Nintendo and the Wii U May Be in Trouble due to Closure of Vital Semiconductor Factory

by Giuseppe Nelva on August 4, 2013 4:19 AM 130 

There may be more trouble on the horizon for the already slow-selling Wii U. On Friday the prominent semiconductor manufacturer Renesas Electronics posted its quarterly financial report, together with notice of extraordinary loss and a press release about an impending restructuring of the company.

As part of that restructuring Renesas, that merged with NEC Electronics in 2012, announced that it decided to close four semiconductor plants in Japan within 2-3 years, including the state-of-the-art factory based in Tsuruoka, Yamagata Prefecture  (as reported by the Wall Street Journal), and this may spell trouble for Nintendo and the Wii U.

The reason is quite simple. The closing factory was responsible for manufacturing the console’s Embedded DRAM, that is quite properly defined the “life stone” of the console.

Nintendo told the Japanese Magazine Weekly Diamond that “the closure of the plant won’t have immediate effects on the production of the Wii U”, but the outlook of things isn’t too positive for the future.

Nintendo could try to contract another company to produce the component, but there are circumstances that make it difficult. According to a Renesas executive the production of that semiconductor was the result of the “secret sauce” and state-of-the-art know-how part of the NEC heritage of the Tsuruoka plant, making production elsewhere difficult. In order to restart mass production in a different factory redesigning the component may be necessary.

"

That's a worthless article ... We don't even have a PR statement from Renesas claiming that it was due to low console sales.

except wasnt 256GB/s?

really?

here

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/4/3

"

The one key area of bandwidth, that has caused a fair quantity of controversy in its inclusion of specifications, is that of bandwidth available from the ROPS to the eDRAM, which stands at 256GB/s.

"

Interconnect bandwidth means jack shit ... What's most important is main memory bandwidth. It is the DRAM that bridges the gap, not eDRAM.

or as the article from gaming blend says, here

http://siliconvalleywriting.com/Bob%20Peterson%20sample_Embedded%20DRAM%20for%20Xbox%20360.pdf

"

As Xbox Product Group corporate vice president Todd Holmdahl explains, “Without NEC Electronics embedded DRAM on the GPU and the huge 256-Gbytes/second dedicated bus from the GPU core to the eDRAM, it is impossible to render true next-generation scene complexity at high-resolution with anti-aliasing.” Xbox 360 supports all games with this dramatic performance in high definition TV at 16:9, 720p and 1080i. A look at the GPU shows why it needs such an outrageous memory bandwidth.

The 500-MHz custom ATI graphics processor—fabricated by NEC Electronics—includes 48-way-parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines and a unified shader architecture. Using external memory, the GPU would be limited to a 32- or 64-bit interface. The NEC Electronics eDRAM expands the on-chip memory interface past 1000 bits in width to support the GPU’s 256-Gbytes/second bandwidth between the graphics pipelines and memory.The 10-Mbyte eDRAM block consists of several 20-Mbit macros, each capable of supporting 500-MHz clock speeds. The macro was developed by NEC Electronics, and it offers versatile design parameters for easy integration with other intellectual property (IP).

"

Ok the first thing that marketing got wrong is that's between the ROPS and eDRAM. The second thing is that it's 32 GB/s between the eDRAM and GPU. 

or even here(page 5)

http://meseec.ce.rit.edu/551-projects/spring2013/2-3.pdf

or from ign

http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/05/20/e3-2005-microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3?page=3

Thanks for the worthless links ...

"

Bandwidth 
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.

"

Thanks for major nelson marketing ...

didnt you read the full article?

Do I have to when i know where your going and you still don't get it ? 

here

uff

 

Only the ROPS have full access to the edram 256GB/s of bandwidth(as byond3d explained) casue the rops and the edram are both on the same die chip, only the GPU is on a different die chip so it has to communicate with the edram with an external bus of 32GB/s, but since the edram+rops main use is for framebu tffer it doest give that much bottleneck. As for wii u, the whole gpu and the edram are in the same die chip, menang that wii u gu has full access to the edram bandwidth

@Bold No

Thanks for owning youself. The only way to get higher bandwidth is to either blow it on a bigger memory controller or increase the memory clocks.

edram bandwidth and latecy isnt important for teselation and displacement?

seriously, have you even read the article or only the title?

here(pages 10,16,,17,42, 43,73,80, 94, 95,)

http://www.graphics.stanford.edu/~niessner/papers/2013/thesis/niessner2013thesis.pdf

Don't you dare go about questioning one of the more experienced in the master race. This is the exact reason why you got banned on beyond 3D for spouting shit like this. eDRAM bandwidth means jack shit for tessellation performance. Tessellation is dependent on GEOMETRY ENGINES. 

seriously dude, just read

Anymore lies to add to the disscussion ?


Only yours, but had enough of it, you dont even admit what is in front of you so there is no point, besides you lies were exposed and beaten in the other posts so dont see the point arguing old stuff



jonathanalis said:
Is that the full article? http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Wii-U-Memory-Bandwidth-GPU-More-Powerful-Than-We-Thought-62437.html

I believe wii U can do a lot more that what see now.
Look at 2011 tech demos.
But it makes me wonder why is nintendo hiding the wii U real specs...???
So, i dont know what to think.
Ill just wait to see the games.

Believe whatever you want...



Around the Network
megafenix said:

Only yours, but had enough of it, you dont even admit what is in front of you so there is no point, besides you lies were exposed and beaten in the other posts so dont see the point arguing old stuff

The one who got exposed was you. That's why no one acknowledges your neverland lies LOLOL. 

Getting banned at beyond 3D and mostly dssapproved by Pemalite just means that your in the wrong here. 

Once again ...

Solution,

-Mr Khan



fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:

Only yours, but had enough of it, you dont even admit what is in front of you so there is no point, besides you lies were exposed and beaten in the other posts so dont see the point arguing old stuff

The one who got exposed was you. That's why no one acknowledges your neverland lies LOLOL. 

Getting banned at beyond 3D and mostly dssapproved by Pemalite just means that your in the wrong here. 

Once again ...

hehehe, as expected of you

you know, its not me whi denies you but everyonedualshoekers

renesas

ign

gamingblend

shinen

 

want me to add more on the list?

 

a yes, if you at least read the last post you should already know in what they dny your lies, but you didnt even read them right?

or are you so fast that can do it in less than a minute?

 

dont get it?

its not me, is everyone, i am simply copy and pasting what they say, i am not putting my words into this but theirs, got a problem?

talk to them then



megafenix said:

hehehe, as expected of you

 

you know, its not me whi denies you but everyonedualshoekers

renesas

ign

gamingblend

shinen

 

want me to add more on the list?

Cool story bro. Now how about you give me a reputable sources like Anandtech or toms hardware ? Don't give me worthless gaming sites on news about tech manufacturing. 



drkohler said:
Oh look, it's MisterXMedia all over again. Didn't know there is such a moron in the WiiU camp, too..
And yes, 550MHz*1024bit is 560 gigaBITS/s, NOT gigaBYTES/s....


I thought something was fishy. According to his calculations wouldn't the bandwith of the Wii U's EDRAM be 74GB/s ?



Darc Requiem said:
drkohler said:
Oh look, it's MisterXMedia all over again. Didn't know there is such a moron in the WiiU camp, too..
And yes, 550MHz*1024bit is 560 gigaBITS/s, NOT gigaBYTES/s....


I thought something was fishy. According to his calculations wouldn't the bandwith of the Wii U's EDRAM be 74GB/s ?

It is but when you have liars like megafenix spreading misinformation to the ill informed this happens ...