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MS is using a Nvidia Titan in their X1 units at E3. Are they mis representing the X1 graphics.

Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS is using a Nvidia Titan in their X1 units at E3. Are they mis representing the X1 graphics.

VGKing said:
Kasz216 said:
VGKing said:
Kasz216 said:

1) Planetside 2 isn't a very demanding PC game.  At least, not in the GPU sense... it is in the CPU sense, due to bad programming.  It's not demanding so much as it is picky.

2) The titan while impressive, is actually pretty shit for it's price.  In otherwords, a lot cheaper cards will do it close for less.  Really, the Titan isn't actually needed for anything in gaming right now.

3)   By better multi-core support they mean that Planeside 2 for PS4 will have better multicore support not that PS4 has better multicore support then PC.

   Planetside 2 pretty much uses zero multi-threading and only uses one core on your PC.  They were supposed to fix this WAY back in the beta days, but didn't.

Games now a days generally do support at least dual core... and a game like Planetside not supporting it, is generally a huge failure since it's putting 200 objects on screen at a time.

Generally, on a lot of computers it will run like crap... yet not use anything more then 30% of your systems resources... because they programmed it like it was for an old school single core computer. 

or TLDR, PS2 will run better on the PS4 because it's programmers aren't so much "noobs" anymore, it doesn't really having anything to do with the PS4.

If they put the PS2 PC version on PS4 with the smallest amount of tweaks... it probably wouldn't even be playable... on any setting.  PS2 runs like garbage on AMD hardware.  Hence the need for a version with better multithreading.

It is a pretty fun game though.  I'd definitly suggest playing it.

Hopefully they'll port the PS4 engine back over to the PC so people with modern PCs can run the game decently.

So PS4 development is forcing PC devs to have better multi-core support. I'd say that's a win/win situation.
They already said the work they're doing on the PS4 version will impact their PC version.


Most PC games already have better multi-core support.

PS4 is forcing one awful dev to fix their programming.

Meanwhile, if any dev doesn't have perfectly done multi-thread programming any multiplat game will run and look better on PC.

It's about as much a win-win as the Cell was a win-win situation.  In that... it really wasn't, because it generally meant multiplats would only ever look worse... and in some cases could have some devestating problems.  (Like Skyrim is a good example.)

It's not AS bad, since the PS3 is basically a fussy computer.  That is still the problem though.  Making multithreading perfect on an 8 core machine.

What exactly are you comparing to the Cell here? 


The PS4 and well AMD CPU.  The GPU isn't really an issue for most PC's and Planeside.  It's a weird case where most of the time changing your graphics settings does NOTHING for framerate, because the bottleneck is in the CPU.


Basically the PS4 has 8 cores right?   If the current Planetside 2 were to run on the PS4 and you did a core diagnostic, you'd find one core mostly worked... and the rest of the cores... hardly working at all.  You'd probably be at about 30% of your resources used.

Whether your graphics were set to max or ultra low... your frame rate would likely be identical.

The same is true for most AMD CPUs.  (Or the I7 really.)

Meanwhile CPU's with less, more powerful cores will run the game much much better. 

CPU's with multiple cores will suffer due to devs who suck at multiple cores or just don't make the effort.  Now a days usually games optimize for 2-4 cores.  (Though again, planetside is bafflingly a 1 core optimzied game like it was the year 2000.)

AMD likes to use more cores to compete with more powerful Intel cores.

 Ironically SOE has pretty much just ignored 8 core processorts making them one of the worst offenders.

The reason for the policy change i imagine is pretty obvious.

 

Hopefully, the trend continues in general, but really, we'll see.  Plus you need to account for developers who aren't used to this suddenly having to do this.  So don't be shocked if a bunch of the launch games are really kind of rocky like was the case with the PS3.



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Don't they always do that, I remember people saying this for the last 3 or 4 E3s



Bet reminder: I bet with Tboned51 that Splatoon won't reach the 1 million shipped mark by the end of 2015. I win if he loses and I lose if I lost.

VGKing said:
Kasz216 said:
VGKing said:
Kasz216 said:

1) Planetside 2 isn't a very demanding PC game.  At least, not in the GPU sense... it is in the CPU sense, due to bad programming.  It's not demanding so much as it is picky.

2) The titan while impressive, is actually pretty shit for it's price.  In otherwords, a lot cheaper cards will do it close for less.  Really, the Titan isn't actually needed for anything in gaming right now.

3)   By better multi-core support they mean that Planeside 2 for PS4 will have better multicore support not that PS4 has better multicore support then PC.

   Planetside 2 pretty much uses zero multi-threading and only uses one core on your PC.  They were supposed to fix this WAY back in the beta days, but didn't.

Games now a days generally do support at least dual core... and a game like Planetside not supporting it, is generally a huge failure since it's putting 200 objects on screen at a time.

Generally, on a lot of computers it will run like crap... yet not use anything more then 30% of your systems resources... because they programmed it like it was for an old school single core computer. 

or TLDR, PS2 will run better on the PS4 because it's programmers aren't so much "noobs" anymore, it doesn't really having anything to do with the PS4.

If they put the PS2 PC version on PS4 with the smallest amount of tweaks... it probably wouldn't even be playable... on any setting.  PS2 runs like garbage on AMD hardware.  Hence the need for a version with better multithreading.

It is a pretty fun game though.  I'd definitly suggest playing it.

Hopefully they'll port the PS4 engine back over to the PC so people with modern PCs can run the game decently.

So PS4 development is forcing PC devs to have better multi-core support. I'd say that's a win/win situation.
They already said the work they're doing on the PS4 version will impact their PC version.


Most PC games already have better multi-core support.

PS4 is forcing one awful dev to fix their programming.

Meanwhile, if any dev doesn't have perfectly done multi-thread programming any multiplat game will run and look better on PC.

It's about as much a win-win as the Cell was a win-win situation.  In that... it really wasn't, because it generally meant multiplats would only ever look worse... and in some cases could have some devestating problems.  (Like Skyrim is a good example.)

It's not AS bad, since the PS3 is basically a fussy computer.  That is still the problem though.  Making multithreading perfect on an 8 core machine.

What exactly are you comparing to the Cell here? 


Or really,  the best way to explain it is.. say you have two companies, one with 4 machines,(Intel) and another with 8 workers. (AMD)

They can work about equally fast.  Now the guys who supply both of these companies,(Planet Side) put what needs to be done in 8 Baskets.

What Planetside does, is basically dump EVERYTHING it can fit into that first basket. While the other 7 just have a small amount of leftovers.

As such, the machines are basically twice as fast in the task then the workers.  As there is just one worker doing everything, after the other 7 just finish and wait around.

 

Most developers instead will evenly dump the supplies in 2 or 4 baskets.   Almost nobody takes the time to make sure all 8 baskets are about evenly filled with work... because it's harder and you never might accidentally put things in the wrong baskets not letting them be used together and cause a huge hangup and crash as the products can't be installed together and the workers just confusidly look at half of what they are supposed to build, not having the other half they need.

 

HOPEFULLY the PS4 and XbOne will cause better optimization and more practice so their are less hangups and errors.  Then again, they might just still focus on the average 2-4 cores... since it's safer... easier.... and unlike PC, you can't really have game 1 hangups and crash to desktops on consoles.  (Though maybe you can now with the big focus on digital, i dunno.)



So a random pic is all it takes to be 100% fact. You just posted a pic of a PC and are claiming its proof MS is using it for X1 demos.. Well why didn't the pic include the X1 display then? You can even see the mouse on top of the case the PC is in.



Kasz216 said:

Or really,  the best way to explain it is.. say you have two companies, one with 4 machines,(Intel) and another with 8 workers. (AMD)

They can work about equally fast.  Now the guys who supply both of these companies,(Planet Side) put what needs to be done in 8 Baskets.

What Planetside does, is basically dump EVERYTHING it can fit into that first basket. While the other 7 just have a small amount of leftovers.

As such, the machines are basically twice as fast in the task then the workers.  As there is just one worker doing everything, after the other 7 just finish and wait around.

 

Most developers instead will evenly dump the supplies in 2 or 4 baskets.   Almost nobody takes the time to make sure all 8 baskets are about evenly filled with work... because it's harder and you never might accidentally put things in the wrong baskets not letting them be used together and cause a huge hangup and crash as the products can't be installed together and the workers just confusidly look at half of what they are supposed to build, not having the other half they need.

 

HOPEFULLY the PS4 and XbOne will cause better optimization and more practice so their are less hangups and errors.  Then again, they might just still focus on the average 2-4 cores... since it's safer... easier.... and unlike PC, you can't really have game 1 hangups and crash to desktops on consoles.  (Though maybe you can now with the big focus on digital, i dunno.)

Well this will obviously change with PS4/XB1. I mean these consoles are designed to last more than 5-10years. At first we might see few cores being used but as time goes on I expect all 8 to be properly utilized. This isn't a Cell-type situtation as both XB1/PS4 are using 8 Core CPUs.

What about the GP-GPU thing? Over time won't devs start offloading CPU tasks onto the GPU?



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It's not a Titan. It's a 680. Doesn't change the fact that it's much more powerful than the X1, and a completely different architecture. If they're showing off their games on something like this, they haven't even begun to port it over to a dev kit.



talk nerdy to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJt8M8J_em0



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

There were some games that were - categorically, without a shadow of a doubt - running on Xbox One hardware. It'll come as little surprise to learn that first party software was more likely to be showcased running on the new console, with Turn 10's Forza Motorsport 5 the most high profile title we saw that was visibly operating on the actual console.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one



leo-j said:
pr3st00 said:
Of course they wouldn't show demos which were better looking than the actual games later. Come on, I agree that M$ is doing a lot of bad things and I will be sticking to PS4 in the next gen, but this is too much.


if they have to downclock to below 1 Tera flop, the console would be a huge step back from ps4


Yep, definetely, and I'm hoping they don't. Tough competition is what bring us good products.



Nsanity said:

There were some games that were - categorically, without a shadow of a doubt - running on Xbox One hardware. It'll come as little surprise to learn that first party software was more likely to be showcased running on the new console, with Turn 10's Forza Motorsport 5 the most high profile title we saw that was visibly operating on the actual console.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

Maybe the next rumor will tie the XB1 into the cause for 9/11. Nothing better than irrational tin foil hat fanboys since E3. Isn't it great what the online gaming community has turned into?