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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Rockband on the Wii

rocketpig said:
Entroper said:
Sqrl said:

I've said this before but I'll say it again for good measure:

The sizes of those downloads is completely unnecessary. The avgerage single song should easily be able to fit under 10 MB including the information about what notes need to be played when etc... I have a feeling they are doing things the hard way and separating each instrument into its own file and mixing it back together at playback.

Whatever the reasons they did it for its not going to change now.


Honestly, the way the game works, they do need to have separate tracks and mix them during the game. When you mess up, your specific instrument track doesn't play, but the rest of the tracks continue. It has an effect in multiplayer, too. Even with separate tracks, though, they could definitely consume less space than 30-60 MB per song.

@DMeisterJ: Stop trying to impose your own artificial limitations on the Wii. Again, Smash Bros. appears to have its own download interface that is separate from the Wii Shop Channel, and there is absolutely no reason that Rock Band could not do the same. Why do you make this stuff up? Why do you even care, would a fully functional Wii version of Rock Band be some kind of a threat to you?


Both of you are also forgetting the crowd vocals specific for each song, the various video setups (each song has its own "video", if you will), and a few other things.

There's a lot more going on in Rock Band than you initially realize. Trust me, I've played the damned game enough to notice (logged well over 50 hours on the game already, probably more like 100).


 I was actually accounting for the video aspect also.  Unless they are bringing in entirely new sets and stages for you to play on we are talking about maybe a few KB worth of data to tell the actors where and how to move, a good lipsyncing  engine would only need the lyrics in a text format to sync that also.  A very small amount of the 30MB is anything but song tracks.

Also, I kinda figured that the game stopped playing only the portion being messed up when someone made a mistake. But you can still get around that with only a single recording..but I totally admit its a lot more complicated that way...thats why I said it wasn't going to happen =P

Basically they made it for the 360 and PS3 where the space issue didn't matter and they did it the easier way...its not a bad method its just using more space than is absolutely required.  In short they did it the smart way for those consoles because there was no reason for them to spend time or effort shrinking the format when it wasn't an issue for them.  It makes things interesting for a Wii port but that wasn't on their plate at the time and by the time it was in the cards they weren't going to go back and fix something that worked already.



To Each Man, Responsibility
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Sqrl said:

I've said this before but I'll say it again for good measure:

The sizes of those downloads is completely unnecessary. The avgerage single song should easily be able to fit under 10 MB including the information about what notes need to be played when etc... I have a feeling they are doing things the hard way and separating each instrument into its own file and mixing it back together at playback.

Whatever the reasons they did it for its not going to change now.

@bulletstopper,

bulletstopper said:
I will be getting it. I am still playing guitar hero3. I need me a new rock god fix! Rockband on the Wii will be my favorite game of the year, hands down. (If it comes out that is.) It's the only type game I really have time to enjoy. I am super busy, and it's great just to sit down when you have a moment and play.

I think all of the "rumors" you mentioned were things that are confirmed to be coming or are simply things that take little thought to realize they are coming. Colors and pricedrops are both things that will come eventually...its not an "if" but a "when". You introduce colors and pricedrops to infuse the product with new interest and as you probably noticed they don't need to do that quite yet. As for DLC in GH3, nobody has ever stated that as confirmed, only that they want to do it.

Where it concerns the sales of GH3, if EA and Harmonix aren't happy with GH3 sales then they need their eyes checked...but I actually think you are completely off-base on this assertion and that the sales of GH3 are the reason they will eventually bring RB to the Wii.

@riot of the blood,

Riot Of The Blood said:
Why do you guys want this bullshit anyways? Don't you guys get sick of playing mini-games all the time?

Hmm, it doesn't make sense from your vantage point does it? Its almost like we see things completely differently eh?

@llewdebkram,

llewdebkram said:
Just because it's rock music being played doesn't take away the fact that in GH and Rock Band you are all playing with instruments that look like Fisher Price toys!

Play, laugh, Grow

:P

Thats kind of funny actually. Seriously I mean it. I've always thought that if GH was put out on the Wii first most gamers would have mocked it for being kiddy and it would have taken a lot longer for it to become popular....luckily the PS2 made it cool first and now we can all enjoy the glory of GH & RB provided we are secure enough in who we are not to be persuaded by insecure naysayers...like yourself.


 That's what I was indirectly trying to show.

 Games that are though of as cool that people probably feel kinda tough playing,  played with a guitar that under an other circumstances anyone above 8 years old would call babyish.



True, I'm sure there are ways to condense the tracks more, but how much harder would it be with the Wiis limited audio setup? I'm not very familiar with audio so I don't know if that is a constraint or not.




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greenmedic88 said:
Worst case scenario would be publish extra discs of music, either under different themes (like GH 80's) or as a compilation containing the current catalog of RB songs (or selection of songs) in the database.

Figure they charge $6 for a three pack of songs by individual artists. Charging $30-40 for a decent compilation isn't outrageous. The question becomes whether Harmonix would want to publish additional content in this manner, keeping in mind licensing fees for each disc published and then covering production, packaging and distribution costs. DLC is much favorable to publishers in this respect.

Paying $160 for a static game would be less than ideal since one of the biggest novelties of RB was the constant inclusion of new tracks. Take that away and you end up waiting a year between releases, which is acceptable, but still under par set by XBL and PSN. Occasional new releases justify the initial package cost, but still does not offer the immediate delivery system provided through DLC.

DLC using SD memory cards seems ideal. Space is not an issue since the average buyer isn't going to buy enough extra tracks to fill even a 512MB card even at 40MB per track. If so, buy a 1GB card for what? $20 or less? The only issue with using SD cards to store licensed tracks is DRM. Harmonix, nor the recording labels that own the rights to the music itself, are not going to write carte blanche for anyone downloading paid for tracks to distribute as they see fit.

Under the current Wii operating system, anything that can be copied to SD card is now free game to be transferred to any other Wii console.

As such, you cannot transfer download purchases off the Wii. At least I haven't found a way to legally do this. All my classic games are locked on my console and cannot be transferred to SD card by standard (legal) means.

Unless Nintendo updates its file transfer/format system (maybe with a proprietary format for SD cards used with the Wii), that is the real hurdle for DLC.

No point really in arguing about it since it's not reality yet anyway. Either way, not publishing RB for the Wii still equals lost sales.

I was under the impression that VC games (which I, at least, consider 'download purchases') could be copied to SD cards.  And by 'under the impression,' I mean you can do this.  By standard means.



Please, PLEASE do NOT feed the trolls.
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You get a "This file cannot be copied" message. I could post a screen shot, but take my word for it. If I could copy my VC games, I would.

Streets of Rage 3 "This file cannot be copied"
Gunstar Heroes "This file cannot be copied"
Punch-Out!!! "This file cannot be copied"
Military Madness "This file cannot be copied"
Ninja Gaiden "This file cannot be copied"

Super Metroid did copy a 1 memory block file to SD card, but I have to try playing it on another Wii before knowing if the game is playable on any console. I can do it tonight, but I don't see why it would play since the game itself takes 4 memory blocks. The 1 memory block that was copied is probably just game save data.

If you know something that isn't documented regarding the transfer and copying of VC games, enlighten us.



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Downloaded songs are making them way more money then the game itself ever will. The wii isn't too strong with online users.

It would still make them some money, but after they said they sold 1 million songs (Probaly due to 360's online), I don't think they are losing much sleep.



I just hope that the Wii version and its lack of DLC doesn't prompt Harmonix to release another Rock Band game in the next 14-18 months. Part of the reason I bought into the game was because of its longterm DLC potential.




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That does raise an interesting issue: if RB and even GH are raising significant amounts of revenue simply through downloads, what are the incentives for new releases?

You get a boost in game sales, from both previous users and late hardware adopters who will probably buy either game as an initial purchase.

Visibility of releasing a sequel due to constant press/media coverage.

New characters, venues, etc. could all be added through DLC, so presumably the next iteration of RB and GH will have new play elements, modes, etc. to push previous owners to buy the new version. It's not like the release of RBII or GHIV will keep anyone playing RB or GHIII from being able to purchase additional songs.

Regardless, there will be new versions in the future, the DLC just provides a constant refresh of new content to keep interest up. They'll make them simply because they'll sell, just like the 50 iterations of DDR that have popped up over the years.



rocketpig said:
I just hope that the Wii version and its lack of DLC doesn't prompt Harmonix to release another Rock Band game in the next 14-18 months. Part of the reason I bought into the game was because of its longterm DLC potential.

It depends.  If a new release means 58 more songs for $60 more thats a great deal...especially since they give a great mix of songs in there too.  It would suck to swap discs I suppose but if they let you choose to "install" songs on your hard drive so that you can play them on either version of the game etc....but all of that is speculation anyways...

 

What I'm trying to say is that I can see merit in both methods.

 

Personally I've never been a big fan of spending $$ on DLC for any game...perhaps a bit irrational but its still a quirk I have nonetheless.  I guess I've always just seen it as something they forgot to add originally and now want me to pay more for it or something...but I suppose it depends what it is. A song I can understand a lot more than say a level or map etc...



To Each Man, Responsibility

Sqrl, I'm a big fan of DLC simply because if I don't like the song, I don't buy it.

Considering that any online source charges $1.00 to just listen to a song, I have absolutely no problem with paying $2.00 to play that same song in RB. I think that's a pretty fair price (but don't get me started on Guitar Hero's $6.50 song pack with no individual song available bullshit).




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