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Forums - Sony Discussion - Why PS4 needs to play PS3 games

platformmaster918 on 30 December 2012
walsufnir said:
platformmaster918 said:
Galaki said:
Nah. Sony wouldn't want to be copying Nintendo.

Sony invented BC so I hope you're kidding.

Oh no, he is definitely not! Look at my post above. Genesis was able to run games from Master System. There also was an adapter called Tristar for N64.

I'm talking in system BC not an attachment




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walsufnir on 30 December 2012
platformmaster918 said:
walsufnir said:
platformmaster918 said:
Galaki said:
Nah. Sony wouldn't want to be copying Nintendo.

Sony invented BC so I hope you're kidding.

Oh no, he is definitely not! Look at my post above. Genesis was able to run games from Master System. There also was an adapter called Tristar for N64.

I'm talking in system BC not an attachment


Then PS4 won't have bc :) The PS2 offered bc because the PS2 used a MIPS-CPU just like PSX did so that was easy to acomplish. That is why Wii could play GC-games and WiiU can play Wii-games.

 

EDIT: I got you!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Backward_compatible_video_game_consoles

Atari 7800 :D



Adinnieken on 30 December 2012
walsufnir said:

Sure the patent is somehow different - just wanted to show that most "new" ideas have been engineered long ago and are not new ideas. Not offending, of course. And I have to disagree: A PS3-hacker once stated that a full-feature emulator on PS3 but i can't find the link now.

 

But read this: http://wololo.net/2012/11/13/has-sony-resumed-ps2-emulation-on-the-ps3/ especially the "sum up".

It wasn't taken in offense.  My point was only that the idea presented in the patent was something more elegant. 

I think the PS3 was capable of a full-featured PS2 emulator, I think Sony just stopped work on it because software emulation has no financial reward.  So for Sony they would have been investing a lot of money into an emulator that didn't provide any monetary return, other than presumably sales.  I don't believe, unless you have significantly more than 4 cores, that it would be possible to emulate a PS3 and it would require a significant amount of effort in order to do so.

Hardware emulation of the PS3, for the PS4, in the short-term provides the best investment for Sony. 



VGKing on 30 December 2012
Marks said:
Yeah backwards compatibility would be great. If the PS4 uses Blu-ray discs as well then I don't see why it would be hard (or expensive) to make it play PS3 games.

Takes more than just being able to read a Blu-Ray disc. It's up to the CPU/GPU to be compatible with PS3 games. Which from the rumors, it won't be which I say is a mistake.



platformmaster918 on 30 December 2012
walsufnir said:
platformmaster918 said:
walsufnir said:
platformmaster918 said:
Galaki said:
Nah. Sony wouldn't want to be copying Nintendo.

Sony invented BC so I hope you're kidding.

Oh no, he is definitely not! Look at my post above. Genesis was able to run games from Master System. There also was an adapter called Tristar for N64.

I'm talking in system BC not an attachment


Then PS4 won't have bc :) The PS2 offered bc because the PS2 used a MIPS-CPU just like PSX did so that was easy to acomplish. That is why Wii could play GC-games and WiiU can play Wii-games.

 

EDIT: I got you!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Backward_compatible_video_game_consoles

Atari 7800 :D

well whadya know?

Oh well I'm just hoping they use the dongle to keep costs below $400 and give us a more powerful system.  I also want PS to do well and get those exclusives and the devs that make them some more sales than PS3 considering I thought games like Resistance 3, Starhawk, Twisted Metal, and PSAllStars deserved a lot better this gen.




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think-man on 30 December 2012

Well I think every new console should have BC to at LEAST its predecessor.



 

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VGKing on 30 December 2012
think-man said:
Well I think every new console should have BC to at LEAST its predecessor.

Yes and if PS4 is really 6-10x more poweful than a PS3, how hard could emulation be?



flagstaad on 31 December 2012
VGKing said:
think-man said:
Well I think every new console should have BC to at LEAST its predecessor.

Yes and if PS4 is really 6-10x more poweful than a PS3, how hard could emulation be?

The GPU should be easy enough, the CPU on the other hand very hard, is very complex to write the code to emulate the cell processor and the hardware speed required could be very beyond the PS4 power, because emulation is not very efficient and according to rumours, new generation will focus on GPU power not in CPU power.



Marks on 31 December 2012
flagstaad said:
Marks said:
Yeah backwards compatibility would be great. If the PS4 uses Blu-ray discs as well then I don't see why it would be hard (or expensive) to make it play PS3 games.

I will explain why it can be hard AND expensive.

The PS3 architecture is very different from every thing else in the market, and according to ALL the rumors the one that is going to be used for the PS4 is more standard, so the hardware itself cannot play the games straight forward. That leaves 2 options to Sony, first include parts of the PS3 inside the PS4, that would be easy but not cheap at all, they will have to include the components in the price (around 100 dollars extra), make a bigger case and maybe consume more energy. Second is to emulate, but the PS3 architecture is not easy to emulate, the CPU is very fast, powerful and complex, the GPU is a little more standard, but it will require a lot of development time to build a basic emulator lets not mention a perfect one, so this option will be hard and expensive.

It can be done, but the easier alternative is using Gaikai for it, and that is a hard sale for some of the owners of a PS3, that will most likely wait till they finish their games before upgrading, and may bring a slower adoption rate than desired. But they can manage.

Wow okay thanks. Didn't know it required that much effort. 



walsufnir on 31 December 2012
Marks said:
flagstaad said:
Marks said:
Yeah backwards compatibility would be great. If the PS4 uses Blu-ray discs as well then I don't see why it would be hard (or expensive) to make it play PS3 games.

I will explain why it can be hard AND expensive.

The PS3 architecture is very different from every thing else in the market, and according to ALL the rumors the one that is going to be used for the PS4 is more standard, so the hardware itself cannot play the games straight forward. That leaves 2 options to Sony, first include parts of the PS3 inside the PS4, that would be easy but not cheap at all, they will have to include the components in the price (around 100 dollars extra), make a bigger case and maybe consume more energy. Second is to emulate, but the PS3 architecture is not easy to emulate, the CPU is very fast, powerful and complex, the GPU is a little more standard, but it will require a lot of development time to build a basic emulator lets not mention a perfect one, so this option will be hard and expensive.

It can be done, but the easier alternative is using Gaikai for it, and that is a hard sale for some of the owners of a PS3, that will most likely wait till they finish their games before upgrading, and may bring a slower adoption rate than desired. But they can manage.

Wow okay thanks. Didn't know it required that much effort. 


Take a look at http://byuu.org/bsnes/ and the recommended hardware. Yes, this is what a cycle-accurate emulator needs in terms of performance.