Jumpin said:
snakenobi said:
Jumpin said:
You mean pagan wisdom like trial by axe? How about burning live victims in the Brazen Bull? Or digging through pigs entrails to read someone's fortune? Or maybe executing children to appease the winds? Or sacrificing sheep to bring rain?
Anyway, the reason the Catholic Church established itself as the main power in Rome was because Justinian destroyed the Ostrogothic Kingdom and then pulled out of the region when it was discovered to be too expensive to maintain. The Church was also responsible for bringing school and education back to Italy, England, Germany, and France after Justinian's invasion, many Pagan leaders were illiterate and didn't see the use of education.
So it is a little bizarre saying the Church was less wise than the pagans, when in reality they were responsible for educations survival and growth leading up to and through the early modern era. The wisest aspects of ancient religion also was much closer to Christianity than the pagan religions... Afterall, the first Christians were Hellenized Jews, who merged Jewish ideas with philosophies of the wisest classical Greeks. Christianity is as much a successor religion to the classical philosophical and spirtual mystery cults as it is to Judaism.
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(1) the church is not responsible for bringing people out of the dark ages but the denouncement of the chruch and science taking a higher place.
(2) yeah some pagan things were nuts but it is the same what you see in abhrahamic religions.
(I am ignoring this one for obvious reasons) and there no point talking about jews and judaism,we can what there ideas and egoism about their value in the world has brought to the world.
(3) rather look at taoism or buddhism which are the most advanced philosophies out there
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1. It is a historical fact that the Church was responsible for maintaining education throughout the entirety of the period that is labeled the Dark Age; and that it was largely those who denounced Christianity who were responsible for destroying it (as most of them were illiterate and worshipped War Gods). The Scientific revolution didn't begin until the 17th century, hundreds of years after the time period labeled as the Dark Ages; and the scientific revolution was not an anti-Christian either; in fact, the majority of people associated with the scientific revolution and the enlightenment period were devout Christians. This thread is about how the Dark Ages are only labeled such out of ignorance by early modern historians, and that the term really needs to die. So I don't agree with you, based on historical fact.
2. I also disagree with you on your second point, based on the fact that what you are suggesting is so incorrect that it's insane. I don't think I have ever gone to Church to witness trial by axe, burning someone alive in a brazen bull, sacrificing a sheep, sacrificing a child to appease the winds, or digging through pig entrails to discover how to proceed with life. Sorry, but it sounds like you don't know much of anything about Christianity.
3. On your third point, about Buddhist and Taoist philosophy being more advanced than Christian philosophy.
Firstly, and most importantly, this doesn't support your point that "Paganism is wiser than abrahamic religion" because neither Taoism nor Buddhism are pagan. Pagan religions are those that based around idolatry and rituals to please the Gods for the purpose of changing the physical fortunes of an individual such as sacrificing a goat in order to bring rain for your crop.
It is interesting that you bring up Taosim and Buddhism, because these two religions are actually very close to Christianity, sharing many core philosophical ideas and ideals such as humility, compassion, and an immortal soul. In fact, there are theories that Jesus lived most of his life in India; first brought there by three Buddhist Monks who were following a star, and then later to seek the lost tribes of Israel; India is one of the locations where the first Churches were established, as early Christianity emerged during a time of heavy trade with India and China along the silk road.
Although, your statement about them was about advanced philosophies, well since you have already established that you feel science is a form of advancement. Here's some Christian/Abrahamic philosophy for you:
The Cosmological argument for the existence of God & The Teleological argument for the existence of God. The Cosmological and Teleological arguments pre-date Christianity, and owe their origins to Plato, Aristotole, and Xenophon; but the huge bulk and breakthroughs in the fields of cosmology and teleology have been in both the Islamic with distinctly Christian philosophers - and as I stated earlier, Greek philosophy is as much a parent to Christian philosophy as Judaism; the original Christians were Hellenized Jews. Under Christianity, both of these philosophical arguments came to utilize Newtonian and Quantum scientific components; among the key supporting components is the Big Bang Theory. As far as I know, neither Buddhist philosophers, nor Taoist philosophers have made such breakthroughs in philosophical thought... Unless you could point me to some examples (By the way, I already know they don't exist).
Anyway, onto my concluding point; people who label Christianity as the cause of a "dark age" are genuinely ignorant of history; most of this comes from childish anti-Christian outbursts from teenagers, and childish adults, who are looking for something besides their parents to rebel against (I am not just coming up with this thought out of nowhere, I am paraphrasing Albert Einstein here - and stating it far more politely than he did). Christianity, an ancient and longstanding key cultural influence on civilization becomes an obvious target for such people; so much so, that they ignore the vast contributions that it had in shaping European culture over centuries and millenia. If you are going to take such a negative stance on Christianity, then you are closing yourself off to one of the key cultural vertebrae of Western Civilization for the last 2000 years, and are generally leaving yourself culturally and intellectually handicapped.
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