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360 Numbers don't add up!

Forums - Sales Discussion - 360 Numbers don't add up!

Stromprophet said: All I know is when both Wii and PS3 roll out at the end of March and both of them say they shipped 6 million (by the way, there was an interview with one of sony's presidents or something, shipped for them mean "sell-thru" or sold to retailer...) Well you be arguing so hard for their numbers on here Monty? Cause I gaurentee you this site probably won't match what Sony will say it shipped, or Nintendo for that matter. In fact, Wii may ship more than 6 million...and this sites numbers are likely to be less than shipped numbers for both those companies...will you still be arguing about this? I have the sneaking suspicion you won't be when it comes to those companies products. I think that spells something.. (it has an impeller on it, it pulls air thru it) + (a young male) = ....
Well, I never ever, ever said that the number should reflect the 10.4 million "sold" figure from MS... where did you get the idea I said that? As for whether I'm a fanboy or not, all I can say is that coming into this debate, I knew the 360 numbers and there was a LOT more out there to debate this issue as the PS3 and Wii were just released. And, come the end of March, if Nintendo says it shipped 6 million, but vgcharts lists sales of 3.9 million and tries to tell me there is 2.1 million of stock on shelves, I'll laugh them off this site (as they are doing with the 360). And, I somehow believe you'll jump the fence onto my side with that one, eh? I'd actually love to see you people flip-flop on this issue when that happens. I've been a diehard gamer for over 30 years now, and own consoles of every brand... I buy them all. Every console has it's good and bad points... all of them, and I can find a reason to want to own all of them.



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Monty said: Well, I never ever, ever said that the number should reflect the 10.4 million "sold" figure from MS... where did you get the idea I said that? As for whether I'm a fanboy or not, all I can say is that coming into this debate, I knew the 360 numbers and there was a LOT more out there to debate this issue as the PS3 and Wii were just released. And, come the end of March, if Nintendo says it shipped 6 million, but vgcharts lists sales of 3.9 million and tries to tell me there is 2.1 million of stock on shelves, I'll laugh them off this site (as they are doing with the 360). And, I somehow believe you'll jump the fence onto my side with that one, eh? I'd actually love to see you people flip-flop on this issue when that happens. I've been a diehard gamer for over 30 years now, and own consoles of every brand... I buy them all. Every console has it's good and bad points... all of them, and I can find a reason to want to own all of them.
Weren't you the one that said the 360 numbers are wrong to begin with? Anyway, I won't be flipping on any side of any fence. PSP already did this, they announced they "shipped" 20 million PSPs worldwide back in June or July. And it just now hit that mark. So did they have millions sitting on shelves. Yes, apparently they did. If you have been gaming so long you would know this is a fairly common practice among all the console guys. Nintendo, Sony, M$, Sega. Especially when install base is still small enough for it to make a big difference in what you report your market share as. Before you even pull out the differences between what Sony says is shipped and M$ interpretation of shipped. Link... http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200701/N07.0108.1833.15034.htm?Page=1 SCEA’s Senior VP of Marketing, Peter Dille "GI: Now you said its 2 million worldwide sold in? Dille: It’s 1 million in North America. What we’re not talking about today is the Japanese numbers, but we will be announcing those soon in the Sony announcement that will come out of Japan. GI: “Sold in” means the retailers have the units, correct? Dille: Correct. What the sell-in number refers to is that we’ve shipped it, we’ve sold it to retail, and the fact that we got to a million was possible because we were air shipping these products in. If we had gone with a boat, there was no way we would have gone to a million. So we’re not playing games with the numbers. These were sold into retail, and you can image the retailer’s incentive: If they’re shipped on a plane, they can go up onto the shelves as quickly as possible. And really, as soon as they’re getting there, they’re evaporating. There’s a tremendous demand." ____________________ But if you have followed the PSP any you would know, it is perfectly possible for a manufacturer to ship millions of "unsold" units to retailers. They are "sold" but not in the end users hands.



Just out of curiosity, Stromprophet... do you use the $ with MS in an attempt to prove you are a fanboy? I always found that was the #1 way to spot a fanboy... I guess it's funny to people because MicroSoft likes to make money, unlike Sony and Nintendo which are in it for the charity! As for the other issue, you won't even have to worry about flip-flopping.... I'll bet a kidney that if vgcharts makes it through 2007, they will NEVER once have the Wii as having a 2.1 million difference between shipped and sold figures!



Monty said: Just out of curiosity, Stromprophet... do you use the $ with MS in an attempt to prove you are a fanboy? I always found that was the #1 way to spot a fanboy... I guess it's funny to people because MicroSoft likes to make money, unlike Sony and Nintendo which are in it for the charity! As for the other issue, you won't even have to worry about flip-flopping.... I'll bet a kidney that if vgcharts makes it through 2007, they will NEVER once have the Wii as having a 2.1 million difference between shipped and sold figures!
Uh...you are aware I only have a 360 at the moment. How do you think I was able to measure the box when you were just throwing out guesses, what was that 6ft high for 7 boxes? No. That would be 49" for 7 boxes, and thus 4 ft high. I use M$ not because I'm a fanboy of any system. I just do, there's no particular reason. I owned all 3 last gen, I probably will again. That's how I roll, I don't really take sides. I bet you that both Nintendo and Sony will say they have more shipped than what this site claims they have sold when demand drops off.



Stromprophet said: Uh...you are aware I only have a 360 at the moment. How do you think I was able to measure the box when you were just throwing out guesses, what was that 6ft high for 7 boxes? No. That would be 49" for 7 boxes, and thus 4 ft high. I use M$ not because I'm a fanboy of any system. I just do, there's no particular reason. I owned all 3 last gen, I probably will again. That's how I roll, I don't really take sides. I bet you that both Nintendo and Sony will say they have more shipped than what this site claims they have sold when demand drops off.
You want to bet that this site will show sometime during this year that there is more than a 2.1 million difference between Nintendo's shipped number and vgcharts actual number? I'd definitely take that bet! You absolutely nailed me on that Xbox box discussion! I eyeballed it and guessed 10" each... you actually took the time to get out a measuring stick, the Xbox 360 box, and then you measured it to find it was 7", and then reported your findings here. I was off by 3", and I'm telling you, my face is indeed red because the box size was a crucial point in this entire debate! The fact that you took the time to do all that, definitely proved that I'm a gigantic loser for eyeballing the size, not taking the time to actually measure it, and was off by a whopping 3"! Good work! So, I guess instead of 30 people, you'd have to picture 30 midgets.



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SFG research shows the Xbox 360 is at 6 million in NA... perhaps proving my point that Canada and Mexico make up just a little bit more than the 10% some of you are giving them credit for. This would put vgcharts about 600k under the total for NA alone. Wowzers. Xbox 360 2006: 6.0m PlayStation 3 2006: 0.5m Nintendo Wii 2006: 2.0m http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4498&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0



Monty said: SFG research shows the Xbox 360 is at 6 million in NA... perhaps proving my point that Canada and Mexico make up just a little bit more than the 10% some of you are giving them credit for. This would put vgcharts about 600k under the total for NA alone. Wowzers. Xbox 360 2006: 6.0m PlayStation 3 2006: 0.5m Nintendo Wii 2006: 2.0m http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4498&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0
That's not research dummy, those are just guesses- which have already been laughed off the internet. Man you're desperate!!



Monty said: I don't believe that the 360 sold as well from Dec 26th - Dec 31st, which is why I didn't cite it at the 250k that would have been the straight "average" (43k times 6 days). I instead said 200k... 50k less than the average. And, again... it was a rough estimate to try to reach a total. It's a pretty pointless disucssion as it was likely VERY close, and wasn't part of a major point... If you believe the total to be 150k (or whatever you believe) it wouldn't make a difference in the ultimate point. Also, to revisit the Canada/Mexico argument, you called my 800k firgure "absurd" and that it "defies all locgic" a minute ago. You added that Canada was "not" above 350k by itself. Now you're trying to tell me that was a figure that was out of date by 2 months, and the total for Canada alone is about 500k? So, if Mexico even sold a mere 200-300k in 14 months, then my figure doesn't seem so "absurd" anymore, does it? Was this one of those other times that I was "proven wrong" as you keep saying? I've yet to find where I've been proven wrong on any statistic. But, now that I've proven you wrong, I'm sure you'll try to say you were "mistaken"?
Monty, seriously, drop the Mexico thing. There are very little, if any consoles sold in Mexico- any that are would be imports from the USA and have already been counted as the man has said. It is a traditional rule of thumb that has been used for the last 20 years that NA ~ 1.1 * USA NPD It works for every other console and software title out there, and it has also been common to have 2m+ units unsold just after christmas. Shipments before are always huge and then pretty small for the first 3-6 months of the next year. Personally I don't see how Xbox360 can be over 5 million NA at this point, never mind the sorts of figures you are suggesting. I think someone made a good point that if vgcharts is arriving at the figures for all 3 consoles using the same methodology then how can they be accused of being biased? If they take the same raw data from the same sources and do the same calculations on it to get the final figure for all 3 then how can they be any fairer than that?



DreamsCast said: Monty, seriously, drop the Mexico thing. There are very little, if any consoles sold in Mexico- any that are would be imports from the USA and have already been counted as the man has said. It is a traditional rule of thumb that has been used for the last 20 years that NA ~ 1.1 * USA NPD It works for every other console and software title out there, and it has also been common to have 2m+ units unsold just after christmas. Shipments before are always huge and then pretty small for the first 3-6 months of the next year. Personally I don't see how Xbox360 can be over 5 million NA at this point, never mind the sorts of figures you are suggesting. I think someone made a good point that if vgcharts is arriving at the figures for all 3 consoles using the same methodology then how can they be accused of being biased? If they take the same raw data from the same sources and do the same calculations on it to get the final figure for all 3 then how can they be any fairer than that?
Can you show me where Mexico accounts for zero sales? Also, I'd be interested to see where you're getting the 10% figure for all of NA minus the US. What I do know is that MS had an official launch in Mexico, Mexico is listed as a "significant" emerging market in video games according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_video_games). Heck, MS just had a big launch party in Mexico for a single game... Viva Pinata... in which they attempted to break the record for the largest Pinata ever. Does this sound like actions that a company would do for a market that sells ZERO consoles? Hell, no... All of you people just tell me to "forget" Mexico and that it sells nothing... that simply isn't true, and unless somebody can back that up, then I'll keep on...



DreamsCast said: That's not research dummy, those are just guesses- which have already been laughed off the internet. Man you're desperate!!
I don't believe it was laughed off the internet... at last check it was still there. Anyhow, don't kill the messenger... if you have a problem with these professional analysts, you can take it up with them. But, it goes in line with what I've been saying all along... most professionals cite the 360 sales as being much higher than what vgcharts is displaying.