By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - judge is giving sony ips from youtube, twitter and geohotz website

I'm not goign to touch the subject of hacking and pirates, but there is a bigger issue on this action by the Federal Judge.  We all need to put down that Fanboy mentallity and start think clearly on this matter,  This country is becoming a corporate owned government.  It is unneccessary to collect IP of anyone that browse or even downloaded the hack,  this is invade of privacy.  Ask yourself this simple question, would you want the US government allowed to setup a system that will record all citizens daily use of phone conversation, internet action or even under survilliance watch?  Granting this action is no different than the above example. 



Around the Network
Pk9394 said:

I'm not goign to touch the subject of hacking and pirates, but there is a bigger issue on this action by the Federal Judge.  We all need to put down that Fanboy mentallity and start think clearly on this matter,  This country is becoming a corporate owned government.  It is unneccessary to collect IP of anyone that browse or even downloaded the hack,  this is invade of privacy.  Ask yourself this simple question, would you want the US government allowed to setup a system that will record all citizens daily use of phone conversation, internet action or even under survilliance watch?  Granting this action is no different than the above example. 

It is completely different.

What you're saying amounts to:

Would you want a federal agent living in your house, taking up space so they can make sure you're not breaking the law at any given moment? Because that's what this will allow.

There is no invasion of privacy. They are finding WHERE in the country these IPs are from. They don't care who looked at what, only where they are from. 

There is a big difference, and it was outlined in the case which is what the judge ruled on. He did rule to give them full authority to sue downloaders or youtube watchers. He sided with them in the circumstance that they are using it to prove jurisdiction. 

EDIT: and before you say my analogy isn't the same, let me explain. Both analogies (future possible repurcussions) are made-up, unrelated implications meant to elicit fear responses. This case has no bearing on individual internet rights. No precedent is being set. You are spreading fear either intentionally, or have not done yourself the favor of educating yourself after hearing this fantasy from someone else.



markers said:
Mr Khan said:
Icyedge said:
dsister said:
Icyedge said:

"...Hotz is accused of breaching the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and other laws after he published an encryption key and software tools on his website..."

So no it doesnt cause a bad precedent for people who wants to hack the stuff they legaly own.


... -__- 

I'm not even going to try to argue this really. Hotz is accused of breaching DMCA. Which criminalizes circumventing DRM. Which is exactly what hacking your console does. So yes, in essence if Sony wins they can pursue anyone that hacked their console

The ability to do what you want with what you own is a basic consumer right, any judge will agree that it override any other liability. Thats why they are sueing geohot for publishing an encryption key and software tools on his website, not for hacking his personal PS3.

But if its legal to hack your own PS3, it is therefore legal to publish the information leading to others to be able to do so, to distribute information on how to conduct a legal activity

Sony's just bullying here, hoping they can sue this kid into the dirt, but they should know they don't have a leg to stand on


No it is not legal to publish that information if it can lead to potential hacking and piracy. Which is what Sony has to prove to win this case. If he posted this and all it did was bring other OS back with no piracy to following, he would be fine. But this is not the case.

You know if sony did not release the ps3, publishers would not have put games on it and those games would not have been pirated. Sony should be sued for supporting piracy. I mean i know you had to take the ps3 and alter it and than go and pirate a game, but this could not be done with out the ps3. How dare they. Who is suiing sony first?

 

I mean its the same case. Gehot did release any hacks specificaly for pirating. Other hackers had to do the work. All he did was give people the ability to jailbreak their ps3.



theprof00 said:
Pk9394 said:

I'm not goign to touch the subject of hacking and pirates, but there is a bigger issue on this action by the Federal Judge.  We all need to put down that Fanboy mentallity and start think clearly on this matter,  This country is becoming a corporate owned government.  It is unneccessary to collect IP of anyone that browse or even downloaded the hack,  this is invade of privacy.  Ask yourself this simple question, would you want the US government allowed to setup a system that will record all citizens daily use of phone conversation, internet action or even under survilliance watch?  Granting this action is no different than the above example. 

It is completely different.

What you're saying amounts to:

Would you want a federal agent living in your house, taking up space so they can make sure you're not breaking the law at any given moment? Because that's what this will allow.

There is no invasion of privacy. They are finding WHERE in the country these IPs are from. They don't care who looked at what, only where they are from. 

There is a big difference, and it was outlined in the case which is what the judge ruled on. He did rule to give them full authority to sue downloaders or youtube watchers. He sided with them in the circumstance that they are using it to prove jurisdiction. 

Stop using biased example, the better example is do you want none law enforcer to peep through your damn house?  and NO government don't need to put an agent inside the house to monitor everyone.  There are inventions called computer and camera system for that.

Not invasion of privacy? I don't need corporate giving the right to track our ips.

Your contradicting your own arguement.

 





Pk9394 said:
theprof00 said:
Pk9394 said:

I'm not goign to touch the subject of hacking and pirates, but there is a bigger issue on this action by the Federal Judge.  We all need to put down that Fanboy mentallity and start think clearly on this matter,  This country is becoming a corporate owned government.  It is unneccessary to collect IP of anyone that browse or even downloaded the hack,  this is invade of privacy.  Ask yourself this simple question, would you want the US government allowed to setup a system that will record all citizens daily use of phone conversation, internet action or even under survilliance watch?  Granting this action is no different than the above example. 

It is completely different.

What you're saying amounts to:

Would you want a federal agent living in your house, taking up space so they can make sure you're not breaking the law at any given moment? Because that's what this will allow.

There is no invasion of privacy. They are finding WHERE in the country these IPs are from. They don't care who looked at what, only where they are from. 

There is a big difference, and it was outlined in the case which is what the judge ruled on. He did rule to give them full authority to sue downloaders or youtube watchers. He sided with them in the circumstance that they are using it to prove jurisdiction. 

Stop using biased example, the better example is do you want none law enforcer to peep through your damn house?  and NO government don't need to put an agent inside the house to monitor everyone.  There are inventions called computer and camera system for that.

Not invasion of privacy? I don't need corporate giving the right to track our ips.

Your contradicting your own arguement.

 



sorry, there was an edit on my post you seem to have missed.

The point is that this case is not setting any precedents and right in the OP the judge ruled in their favor because of what they needed the information for. It is a jurisdictional case, and also to prove that geohotz distributed the code. There is nothing to do with looking at what you downloaded or watched or anything. The thing that is similar to your and my examples is that they are exaggerations of which neither are supported by the outcome of this case, and are meant to serve one purpose; spreading fear, uncertaintly, and disorder.

They are not tracking your IPs in order to persecute you or track you or do anything to you. It is against Geohot only. End of story. Finito. Any of this fear-mongering you keep falling back on is a misguided fantasy at best, and at worst, a complete misrepresentation and a lie.



Around the Network

First of all I don't care if Geohotz's case, I have stated at the beganing I'm not going to touch on the subject of hacking or pirating illegal software.  My was always about corporate owned government,  Mega corporate are giving too much power to abuse the people.  In this case Sony have absolutely no right looking at other companies IP log, if someone break a law the Law enforcer will grant the right to look at any possbile evident.  What we have here is our Jurisdication giving a company right to look at stuff they have no right to.   



Mr Khan said:
markers said:
Mr Khan said:
Icyedge said:
dsister said:
Icyedge said:

"...Hotz is accused of breaching the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and other laws after he published an encryption key and software tools on his website..."

So no it doesnt cause a bad precedent for people who wants to hack the stuff they legaly own.


... -__- 

I'm not even going to try to argue this really. Hotz is accused of breaching DMCA. Which criminalizes circumventing DRM. Which is exactly what hacking your console does. So yes, in essence if Sony wins they can pursue anyone that hacked their console

The ability to do what you want with what you own is a basic consumer right, any judge will agree that it override any other liability. Thats why they are sueing geohot for publishing an encryption key and software tools on his website, not for hacking his personal PS3.

But if its legal to hack your own PS3, it is therefore legal to publish the information leading to others to be able to do so, to distribute information on how to conduct a legal activity

Sony's just bullying here, hoping they can sue this kid into the dirt, but they should know they don't have a leg to stand on


No it is not legal to publish that information if it can lead to potential hacking and piracy. Which is what Sony has to prove to win this case. If he posted this and all it did was bring other OS back with no piracy to following, he would be fine. But this is not the case.

But he cannot be held responsible for what others have done, or perhaps that is the underlying debate here. If i sold a gun to someone through the established, legal processes of firearms sales and that someone hauls off and kills someone, i'm not responsible. If he himself has pirated, all well and good to throw the book at him, if he has enabled piracy directly through distribution of copyrighted materials, yes, but he has not

He knew the consequences of sharing the encryption key, he even publicly admitted it. He set out on this crusade to get back at Sony. He flagrantly wanted to hit Sony between the legs, because why? Because Sony had the right to remove a feature they now deemed a security risk? Because their ToA says at any time they can remove any feature they wish? Big woop, if you want to run linux buy a PC.



thranx said:
markers said:
Mr Khan said:
Icyedge said:
dsister said:
Icyedge said:

"...Hotz is accused of breaching the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and other laws after he published an encryption key and software tools on his website..."

So no it doesnt cause a bad precedent for people who wants to hack the stuff they legaly own.


... -__- 

I'm not even going to try to argue this really. Hotz is accused of breaching DMCA. Which criminalizes circumventing DRM. Which is exactly what hacking your console does. So yes, in essence if Sony wins they can pursue anyone that hacked their console

The ability to do what you want with what you own is a basic consumer right, any judge will agree that it override any other liability. Thats why they are sueing geohot for publishing an encryption key and software tools on his website, not for hacking his personal PS3.

But if its legal to hack your own PS3, it is therefore legal to publish the information leading to others to be able to do so, to distribute information on how to conduct a legal activity

Sony's just bullying here, hoping they can sue this kid into the dirt, but they should know they don't have a leg to stand on


No it is not legal to publish that information if it can lead to potential hacking and piracy. Which is what Sony has to prove to win this case. If he posted this and all it did was bring other OS back with no piracy to following, he would be fine. But this is not the case.

You know if sony did not release the ps3, publishers would not have put games on it and those games would not have been pirated. Sony should be sued for supporting piracy. I mean i know you had to take the ps3 and alter it and than go and pirate a game, but this could not be done with out the ps3. How dare they. Who is suiing sony first?

 

I mean its the same case. Gehot did release any hacks specificaly for pirating. Other hackers had to do the work. All he did was give people the ability to jailbreak their ps3.

By this logic we should sue Apple, Intel, Microsoft (etc.) for making computers and giving us the means to do this. And then we should sue Al Gore (lol) I mean DARPA for coming up with the internet.



Mr Khan said:
LivingMetal said:

"...after he published an encryption key and software tools on his website..."

If it weren't for this, the situation wouldn't have gotten this far.  Blame Geohot, not Sony.

Which we've explained is interpretable as being within his legal rights of allowing consumers to pursue legal activities (that could in turn lead to illegal activities, but where's the burden of proof lie on that?). Sony's only compounding illegalities on top of illegalities


Yes, "could."  From a factual point of view, what I said still stands.



theprof00 said:
Mr Khan said:

Like these big websites are specifically targeting California, though. Again, vengeful anti-consumer opportunism with no real basis except that that's where they want the case to take place. There's an equal chance of it occurring in any state in the Union, and quite a few out of it, if they're going on that flimsy of an argument.

while I agree that they are doing it to get the best case in the region with the best chance to win, there is nothing wrong with that and companies AND people do it all the time.

They are just seeing in the offhand chance that they could get it to take place in california, they have every right to do so. Like I said before, this has nothing to do with the people who watched the vido, or downloaded the hack or anything. This is simply a jurisdictional thing.

Either way, it doesn't look good on them, that they violate consumer privacy in order to jockey for a better chance to damage consumer rights just so they can fight a threat by attacking non-consumers...



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.