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Forums - Sony Discussion - Cohort Studios: Move is “so much more accurate” than Wiimote

Icyedge on 28 April 2010
Gintoki said:
Meh, they did not even compare to the wm+
moreover the price of these lollipops is so much more expensive ;p

The lollipops will be around the same price of the Wiimote plus, maybe cheaper considering they already have built in li-ion battery. But its an extra so in that sense it will be more expensive since you need to get the console and default controller first. I guess thats what you meant right?



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Alby_da_Wolf on 28 April 2010
scottie said:
1) Oh no, move is more accurate than the Wiimote - Nintendo will have to think of some motion plus system for the Wii. Maybe they could call it Wii Motion+

2) When he said
“Having used both controllers a lot, I’d say it was clear that the Move controller is so much more accurate [than the Wii]," said Scragg. "And it’s not just across the X and Y-axis either, the Z axis is really accurate as well."

He was presumable meaning that the z axis is the 'towards/away from the tv axis'. In which case, he should get the fuck off the internet until he has graduated from a university with a physics degree, or at the very least, stop pretending he knows what he is talking about. By convention, the z axis is the 'up down' axis, and it would be the x axis he is talking about. It is of course alright to use unconventional co-ordinate systems, but you MUST define them beforehand

Robotics, physics and computer graphics normally use different axes conventions from each other. CG uses Z as the axis normal to the screen plane.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Squall_Leonhart on 28 April 2010
rapsuperstar31 said:

Cohort Studios...who?

I know! I live in Dundee and i have never heard of them! The main game studio i know is Realtime Worlds which is used by Rockstar



Procrastinato on 28 April 2010

[pointless discussion deleted]



 

GuyDuke on 28 April 2010

They don't have Zelda with Motion+ XD

No, seriously, okay if the Move is more accurate, but I don't care. I love my Wii all the way and never had trouble playing with it.



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scottie on 28 April 2010
Procrastinato said:
The Wiimote's ability to detect depth is based on distance between detected light sources, and it is far less accurate than analyzing a camera image with a clear marker of known size (like a glowing sphere) would be.

Otherwise, I agree, the Wiimote+WMP should be nearly the same as the Move. Spatially, however, the Move's accuracy margins would be measured in millimeters, whereas the Wiimote's accuracy margins would be in terms of centimeters.

 

Hmm? They use EXACTLY the same method

 

Move - uses a camera (PSeye) to measure the apparent size of an object with known absolute size (the ball)

Wiimote - Uses a camera (the end of the Wiimote) to measure the apparent size of an object with known absolute size (the sensor bar)

 

It's confusing because Nintendo refer to an emittor as a sensor, but now you know - and knowing is half the battle.

 

And no, Wiimote without WM+ is more accurate than to the cm. Ever actually used one?



Paul on 28 April 2010

This is terrible news. The wii is losing it's near monopoly on the rail-shooter market. The move will corner the shovelware market next and the wii will have nothing left but great first party titles.



Icyedge on 28 April 2010
scottie said:
Procrastinato said:
The Wiimote's ability to detect depth is based on distance between detected light sources, and it is far less accurate than analyzing a camera image with a clear marker of known size (like a glowing sphere) would be.

Otherwise, I agree, the Wiimote+WMP should be nearly the same as the Move. Spatially, however, the Move's accuracy margins would be measured in millimeters, whereas the Wiimote's accuracy margins would be in terms of centimeters.

 

Hmm? They use EXACTLY the same method

 

Move - uses a camera (PSeye) to measure the apparent size of an object with known absolute size (the ball)

Wiimote - Uses a camera (the end of the Wiimote) to measure the apparent size of an object with known absolute size (the sensor bar)

 

It's confusing because Nintendo refer to an emittor as a sensor, but now you know - and knowing is half the battle.

 

And no, Wiimote without WM+ is more accurate than to the cm. Ever actually used one?

What are you trying to spin there? An infrared signal sensor and a camera is not the same thing. The Wii bar consist of infrared emitter position at each extremity. On the end of the Wii mote you have a light sensor that detect those infrared signal. Then the console use triangulation to know your position (1). Because of this triangulation process, moving fast with a Wii mote, will leave the device running on his accelerometers by themselves (not precise) (2). Also, the Wiimote needs to be pointed towards the screen (3). When its not pointed towards the screen, it doesnt sense the infrared signal, it becomes dependant of the accelerometers to estimate whats doing on (not precise). Best example of this would be the bowling game, half of your swing cannot use triangulation. Many things that will never happen with PSmove due to the differences in the technology behind it. Im pretty sure there is other differences also. Anyone knows about other factual differences?

 

(1)"The light emitted from each end of the Sensor Bar is focused onto the image sensor which sees the light as two bright dots separated by a distance "mi" on the image sensor. The second distance "m" between the two clusters of light emitters in the Sensor Bar is a fixed distance. From these two distances m and mi, the Wii CPU calculates the distance between the Wii Remote and the Sensor Bar using triangulation.[42]"

(2)"The Sensor Bar is required when the Wii Remote is controlling up-down, left-right motion of a cursor or reticle on the TV screen to point to menu options or objects such as enemies in first-person shooters. Because the Sensor Bar also allows the Wii Remote to calculate the distance between the Wii Remote and the Sensor Bar,[44] the Wii Remote can also control slow forward-backward motion of an object in a 3-dimensional game.[45] Rapid forward-backward motion, such as punching in a boxing game, is controlled by the acceleration sensors. Using these acceleration sensors (acting as tilt sensors), the Wii Remote can also control rotation of a cursor or other objects.[46]

(3)"It is not necessary to point directly at the Sensor Bar, but pointing significantly away from the bar will disrupt position-sensing ability due to the limited viewing angle of the Wii Remote."



scottie on 28 April 2010
Icyedge said:
scottie said:
Procrastinato said:

 

Hmm? They use EXACTLY the same method

 

Move - uses a camera (PSeye) to measure the apparent size of an object with known absolute size (the ball)

Wiimote - Uses a camera (the end of the Wiimote) to measure the apparent size of an object with known absolute size (the sensor bar)

 

It's confusing because Nintendo refer to an emittor as a sensor, but now you know - and knowing is half the battle.

 

And no, Wiimote without WM+ is more accurate than to the cm. Ever actually used one?

What are you trying to spin there? An infrared signal sensor and a camera is not the same thing. The Wii bar consist of infrared emitter position at each extremity. On the end of the Wii mote you have a light sensor that detect those infrared signal. Then the console use triangulation to know your position (1). Because of this triangulation process, moving fast with a Wii mote, will leave the device running on his accelerometers by themselves (not precise) (2). Also, the Wiimote needs to be pointed towards the screen (3). When its not pointed towards the screen, it doesnt sense the infrared signal, it becomes dependant of the accelerometers to estimate whats doing on (not precise). Best example of this would be the bowling game, half of your swing cannot use triangulation. Many things that will never happen with PSmove due to the differences in the technology behind it. Im pretty sure there is other differences also. Anyone knows about other factual differences?

 

(1)"The light emitted from each end of the Sensor Bar is focused onto the image sensor which sees the light as two bright dots separated by a distance "mi" on the image sensor. The second distance "m" between the two clusters of light emitters in the Sensor Bar is a fixed distance. From these two distances m and mi, the Wii CPU calculates the distance between the Wii Remote and the Sensor Bar using triangulation.[42]"

(2)"The Sensor Bar is required when the Wii Remote is controlling up-down, left-right motion of a cursor or reticle on the TV screen to point to menu options or objects such as enemies in first-person shooters. Because the Sensor Bar also allows the Wii Remote to calculate the distance between the Wii Remote and the Sensor Bar,[44] the Wii Remote can also control slow forward-backward motion of an object in a 3-dimensional game.[45] Rapid forward-backward motion, such as punching in a boxing game, is controlled by the acceleration sensors. Using these acceleration sensors (acting as tilt sensors), the Wii Remote can also control rotation of a cursor or other objects.[46]

(3)"It is not necessary to point directly at the Sensor Bar, but pointing significantly away from the bar will disrupt position-sensing ability due to the limited viewing angle of the Wii Remote."

 

I spin nothing but knowledge of the infinite majesty that is physics - infared and light are both electromagnetic fields oscillating at right angles to each other. An infared sensor is just a camera sensitive to a different frequency.

 

The Wiimote uses an electromagnetic wave detector to determine the apparent size of an object based on its electromagnetic emissions, and uses this and knowledge of the actual size of the object to determine distance

Move uses an electromagnetic wave detector to determine the apparent size of an object based on its electromagnetic emissions, and uses this and knowledge of the actual size of the object to determine distance

 

As it says in what you posted "the Sensor Bar also allows the Wii Remote to calculate the distance between the Wii Remote and the Sensor Bar,"

 

Look, I'm not trying to troll or anything, it is exactly the same method, trust me.



S.T.A.G.E. on 28 April 2010
Paul said:
This is terrible news. The wii is losing it's near monopoly on the rail-shooter market. The move will corner the shovelware market next and the wii will have nothing left but great first party titles.

Not exactly true. Sony has quality control on first party watch over their games since they cannot watch all the companies. Nintendo doesn't have this perk. Sony has more things than just videogames to worry about. Sony will most likely have higher quality third party titles than Nintendo. There is a really high chance with Sony and third party companies relationship compared to them and Nintendo. Being that you can do more with the Move it gives third parties more incentive to create a wider variety of quality titles.