| Jaicee said:
I think we're approaching the end of our ability to reach agreement on the particular range of topics we've been discussing here lately, as areas of disagreement appear to be expanding at this point (e.g. surrogacy, etc.), so I think it's time we wrapped up this particular sub-convo and got back to focusing on the actual topic of this thread, which is of course the Democratic Party primary contest. It's clear at this point that you are simply of a more individualistic mindset than I am. I'd like to get back on-topic anyway because, while these are issues that obviously interest me a lot, it's taking up a lot of my time an energy to reply fully and appropriately on these matters and we seem to have reached an impasse. That said, I will briefly highlight some of Dr. Jeffreys' disagreements with identity politics (which is a concept I'm not sure you have a very academic understanding of, to judge by your wording above). I think it might be best to hear her speak about the matter on her own terms, so I'll leave you with this podcast interview from 2016 where she spoke about exactly that. You might find it interesting! She's a good speaker who communicates complex ideas in plain, understandable language. It's a quality that made her a good educator. (I will add though that her use of the term "socialist feminists" therein refers specifically to Marxist feminists. "Socialist feminist" is a classical, '70s/80s era term for Marxist feminists.) |
I feel that calling me individualistic mischaracterizes me, but perhaps in relation to you I am? I feel a lot of these disagreements stem from a continued misunderstanding of each others positions. I agree we're getting off topic though. Thank you for the discussion. I'll confess that my psychology bachelor's never touched on an academic definition of identity politics, but Merriam Webster seems to back me up.
That was my understanding of identity politics, and the dictionary seems to agree. I won't be blamed for what academia has done to that definition that makes you think I'm that off base with it.
I nonetheless checked out your link, and it was indeed...interesting, though it mostly confirmed to me that radical feminism is a form of identity politics. The familiar language of discomfort with cultural change was there. There was a gatekeeping of feminism present that reminded me of white nationalists tendency to gatekeep the American identity. It is really starting to sound like she herself, and indeed you yourself, are lesbian separatists or draw your political ideology from them. It was ironic hearing her describe identity politics as though she wasn't guilty of it herself. The interviewer and Dr. Jeffreys speak as though radical feminism is the only true feminism. Their talk of gender identity and transgenderism makes a strawman of the entire concept. You can't just dismiss transgenderism by calling MTF transgender individuals "men that put on a dress" and accuse them of being men that want to draw feminists efforts away from women. That podcast is a bit of an echo chamber where the interviewers, the guests, and presumably the typical audience all just know that radical feminism is the only feminism, and seem to use the terms feminism and radical feminism interchangably, and openly accuse other forms of feminism of not being real feminism or being "what passes as feminism nowadays" as the host said at one point.
