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yvanjean said: Pitigul logic?? your counterarguments is to simply claim that i'm wrong. You simply ignore facts like there never been mid-gen refresh, PS4 release when there was no competition and sky rocket to the top. |
Yes, pitiful logic since you're dependent on using red herrings, strawman, and ad nauseaum fallacies. And no, I do not simply ignore facts. In one of my previous comments, I even acknowledged that fact. However, I also added other differences between the PS3 to PS4 and PS4 to PS5 transitions. Lastly, claiming that the PS4 released when there was no competition is patently false. Weaker competition? You can argue that, but saying that there is no competition is revisionist history.
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yvanjean said: The only claim you've made was that Sony can improve their first party launch lineup. |
Not was not the only claim I made. Read my comments more carefully. You are deliberately ignoring other parts of my responses such as how PS4 BC provides an instant library at the beginning of the PS5's lifecycle.
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yvanjean said: You ask for facts and proof and provide none yourself, all you given us is the PS5 rumored specs and nothing about the external factor that will impact the PS5 launch. Where is your proof?!? Keep reading I'll provide my backing documents. |
So just because I (supposedly) don't provide proof, it means it's okay for you to do the same thing? You are not absolved from the responsibility to provide evidence. Anyways, the rumored specs are based on AMD's roadmaps. AMD recently had a press conference and their CPU & GPU roadmaps have remained unchanged. 7 nm production has also begun last month.
You know what? I have a better idea. How about you PM Pemalite who has a better grasp on technology than the both of us and see if his assessment more closely aligns with mine or yours?
So just from reading your 1st paragraph, you are arguing in bad faith. I guess red herrings, strawmen, and ad nauseaum fallacies weren't good enough for you, so now you're resorting to outright dishonesty.
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yvanjean said: Where is your data and survey to prove me wrong. Do you claim that Nintendo is not in a better position now with Nintendo Switch compare to the WiiU? Do you think Microsoft had amazing launch with the Xbox One and there nothing they can do to do better? Do you believe that mobile market will have no effect on the console market. Can PS5 give a generation leap especially when compare to PS4 PRo? |
The burden of proof falls on the person making the positive claim. This was your claim: "PS5 launch seem more like the PS3 launch (where Sony fan were still content with their PS2) there won't be the same level of excitement to make the jump (Ps3 to Ps4) and Sony fan will be hesitant to leave their platform of choice the massively popular PS4."
What pieces of evidence do you have that supports this argument? What pieces of evidence do you have that proves my counterarguments against this particular part of your response wrong? The questions that you pose of the remainder of this portion of your response is yet another red herring. It is completely unrelated to your original claim and my refutation against it.
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yvanjean said: Casual market, people that ignore first party games is difference between the market leader in console gaming. Casual market is the aim to boost console sales. |
This is not even directly address my point that late adopters are price conscious and are not the same people who buy consoles Day 1. Are you even trying because I'm not even halfway through your response and this is pitifully low effort.
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yvanjean said: Microsoft made it so easy to enhance game on the Xbox one X that every third party have jump on board to enhanced their game on the new systems. Claim that developers would only give Xbox one X the Ps4 pro patch and wouldn't use the Xbox one X full power turn out to be entirely wrong. https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/20/16340160/microsoft-xbox-one-x-enhanced-1080p-tv |
Completely unrelated to my argument about how this is the first time Sony will not be switching architectures from the PS4 to PS5.
And it doesn't take long for me to notice that you completely took my point about base development platforms incorrectly. XB1X games are effectively XB1 games. The games have to work on the XB1 which has significantly weaker specs. Your links only prove that XB1X enhanced games run better on the iteration. They don't say that they use the full power of the XB1X.
Anyways, that is three consecutive red herrings. This is extremely poor argumentation.
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yvanjean said: Did you not read what I said more powerful doesn't matter. Zelda breath of the wild and Nintendo odesey run on PS3 tech. http://vgculturehq.com/nintendo-proves-console-power-doesnt-matter/ |
Then be more consistent. If power doesn't matter, then stop trying to push the (false) notion that the upgrade from the PS4 Pro the PS5 will not be substantial. You even asked me for proof about the PS5's potential specs. To tell me that more power doesn't matter in context of your past comments and portions of your comment I'm currently responding to is inconsistent with the claims you've been emphasizing. Is your self-awareness that lacking that you can't even see how you've been contradicting yourself?
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yvanjean said: You said PS4 Pro appeals to the core audience, What happen when the PS4 Pro price drop to a casual friendly price. The price gap between PS4 Pro and PS5 will be big enough that casual market will not wont to pay for PS5. Consumer will want a system for their 4k TV and casual market will go with PS4 Pro. |
I already refuted this point. You just do not read my responses carefully enough. The PS4 will be even cheaper than the PS4 Pro. Price conscious consumers will go with the cheaper product which is the PS4, not the PS4 Pro. That's why 80% of PS4 sales are of the standard SKU. And nice going at ignoring the part where I said Sony could reduce PS4 Pro production in favor of pushing PS5 production and shipments. Also, good job at ignoring the part where I said consumers who buy the PS4 Pro do so because of power. However, since the PS5 will be significantly more powerful than the PS4 Pro, then they will opt for the PS5. Why would power conscious consumers opt for the weaker system?
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yvanjean said: You are right about the difference in power between Xb1X and Xb2, but Microsoft is moving their business model away from consoles with play anywhere, gamepass & Xbox live. They won't care if your on Xb1X, Xb2 or PC because it will be the same Microsoft eco system. |
Microsoft will still want the XB2 to do reasonably well as a way to retain active users. If consumers don't see the XB2 as a compelling system and migrate towards Steam or the PS5, then that constitutes lost active users and potential revenue sources.
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yvanjean said: Microsoft has much less sales then PS4, their sales are made up of a much greater portion of core gamers. PS4 is on top because that's where all the casual gamers went to play their 3rd party games. |
Do you have statistical evidence that proves this? Or is this just a mere assertion?
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yvanjean said: Games of the year 2017 - Legend of Zelda breath of the wild - Nintendo switch spec Nintendo Switch Specs (as confirmed by Digital Foundry)
https://thenextweb.com/gaming/2017/08/22/xbox-one-x-ps4-pro-prove-old-console-cycle-dead/ |
This is your fourth red herring. I refuted your claim that there won't be a substantial upgrade from the PS4 Pro to PS5 (which by the way as I already stated, developers make games with the PS4 and XB1 in mind since they make up the vast majority of userbases). And then, you show the Nintendo Switch's specs... Sorry, but I have to ask you this again. Are you even trying?
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yvanjean said: It will work on both consoles Microsoft plan to support Xb1X for a while, you will get much better graphic on Xb2. There won't be enhance version of game like we saw on Xb1/PS4 anymore because all game will scale and your gaming library will automatically convert to Xb2 from Xbox original, Xbox 360, Xbox one. So even if the game release before the launch of the Xb2, when you buy the new consoles, you will get an Enhance version. Using the same technology that is current being use with the XB1X. |
And that will hamstring whatever features that the future games will have. Developers will have to design their games with the Jaguar CPU in mind, which is extremely weak. Aspects such as more advanced AI and physics will not happen on either the XB1X or XB2 versions unless the developers make their games exclusively for the XB2. Bungie could not get Destiny 2 to run 60fps on consoles even on the Pro and XB1X because Jaguar CPU is too weak. That's how bad it is. More powerful consoles are not just a matter of higher resolution and higher framerates.
But that is besides the point because this part of your response does not even remotely address my questions. Fifth time you have gone completely off topic.
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yvanjean said: My bad, sorry I though this was common knowledge here is the stats. |
That doesn't prove the notion that mobile gaming is taking revenue away from console gaming. One of the graphs show that there will be growth in console online and digital games, and they will grow to a larger degree than the shrinking of console physical sales. I do not see a correlation, let alone a causation. In addition, these are projections whereas I cited a source (Mat Piscatella) who is looking at how the video game market is doing now. Mobile gaming isn't about to grow, it already has grown substantially and for it to keep growing is not a surprise. However, just because there is substantial growth in one sector, it doesn't mean other sectors shrink. Both the console gaming and mobile gaming sectors can grow.
