| o_O.Q said: "I didn't come here to stack up the crimes of science against the crimes of the church" but you should, science has a lot to answer for *1
"There is no universal, top-down organizational structure in science that is comparable to the Catholic church, or any other similar organization. And that is ultimately what I have a problem with, certain organizational structures." there is some truth to that... but its not entirely true... have you ever heard of peer review? *2
"In many churches though, you have ordinarily decent people who will look the other way on crimes against children, because protecting the integrity of the church is seen as more important." most americans think that the bombing of lybia for example was justified... the point i'm making here is that this is a characteristic that is present across all groups, not just religion *3
"There is probably a discussion to be had about specific scientific projects; The Manhattan Project, for example. What compelled otherwise good people, to create a weapon of mass destruction?" exactly
"but it is particularly pernicious in certain churches. And for obvious reasons. God is everything, and the Church has a monopoly on God. " this is where we disagree... i personally think this is characteristic of anyone who associates with a group... fanaticism to me is not something religious people have a monopoly on *4 |
*1 I fundamentally disagree for reasons that I've gone into a bit. But expanding upon it a little more, science is just a rational way of making and organizing observations to learn from them. I think it is kind of fundamental to being human. Like our hands. They can be used to cradle and comfort children, or they can be used nefariously.
*2 I think the word "peer" is key here. Science is a discussion among peers. Sometimes, the community can elevate people who can be corrupted, and put their thumb on the scale. This is bad. But I still see it as completely different from my experience in the Catholic Church, though. When I went to Church on Sundays, a guy at the front told me what was right and what was wrong. And some guy above him probably told him.
*3 I 1,000% agree! Since you brought up Libya, and America, I'll go on record saying that I have a huge problem with patriotism in the United States (and probably other countries too, but I live in the US). I'm not saying that someone can't come to a rational conclusion on why bombing Libya, or anywhere else, is justified, but many people don't do that. They outsource their thinking to higher ups. Or they support it out of fear of being seen as not supporting the troops.
*4 I guess we do just disagree here. All organizations can be corrupted, but individual members going against leadership is made all the harder when the leaders ostensibly have God on their side.
We're probably at an impasse here, but good talk. Thanks for responding.
