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Forums - General Discussion - Pope condemns gay equality laws ahead of first UK visit

Avalach21 said:
I don't understand why everyone is blasting the catholic church in this thread.

The catholic church thinks that homosexuality is wrong. When they are funding and running their own adoption service, I think they should be able to decide who they want to want to give the children up to.

Any secular adoption service can give children to gay couples, and that's fine - they aren't arguing that.

You're joking, right?



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

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Avalach21 said:
I don't understand why everyone is blasting the catholic church in this thread.

The catholic church thinks that homosexuality is wrong. When they are funding and running their own adoption service, I think they should be able to decide who they want to want to give the children up to.

Any secular adoption service can give children to gay couples, and that's fine - they aren't arguing that.

Two points on this;

1) If the Catholics refused to give children up to black couples would that be fine? Whats the difference between the two types of discrimination other than one is more socially acceptable?

2) He also said that it was against natural law, which just pisses gays and gay right supporters off.



^ GOOD POST.



Avalach21 said:
I don't understand why everyone is blasting the catholic church in this thread.

The catholic church thinks that homosexuality is wrong. When they are funding and running their own adoption service, I think they should be able to decide who they want to want to give the children up to.

Any secular adoption service can give children to gay couples, and that's fine - they aren't arguing that.

Child adoption is a civil matter, not a religious one. So those agencies have to run them according to the civil laws no matter how those clash with their personal beliefs of their staff and founders.

Besides you make it sound as if children are some product or property of adoption centers



dtewi said:
What else is expected from Catholicism?

OT: Homosexuality is certainly not a disease. And I doubt it is psychological. If it were pyschological, wouldn't there be far different interpretations of what is sexy? What I mean is that there are basically two things designated sexy in the world: men and women. If your sexuality can be pyschologically altered, why wouldn't people be having sex with telephone poles? Why would it only deviate to *just* those groups if it is apparently very fluid?


Actually, there are people that fall in love with objects. Benches, Cars...hell, a woman got married to the Berlin wall, another to the Eiffel tower. It's possible :d.



The Doctor will see you now  Promoting Lesbianism -->

                              

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Esmoreit said:
dtewi said:
What else is expected from Catholicism?

OT: Homosexuality is certainly not a disease. And I doubt it is psychological. If it were pyschological, wouldn't there be far different interpretations of what is sexy? What I mean is that there are basically two things designated sexy in the world: men and women. If your sexuality can be pyschologically altered, why wouldn't people be having sex with telephone poles? Why would it only deviate to *just* those groups if it is apparently very fluid?


Actually, there are people that fall in love with objects. Benches, Cars...hell, a woman got married to the Berlin wall, another to the Eiffel tower. It's possible :d.

I doubt that's sexual attraction though.

But imagine sex with a car.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

dtewi said:
Esmoreit said:
dtewi said:
What else is expected from Catholicism?

OT: Homosexuality is certainly not a disease. And I doubt it is psychological. If it were pyschological, wouldn't there be far different interpretations of what is sexy? What I mean is that there are basically two things designated sexy in the world: men and women. If your sexuality can be pyschologically altered, why wouldn't people be having sex with telephone poles? Why would it only deviate to *just* those groups if it is apparently very fluid?


Actually, there are people that fall in love with objects. Benches, Cars...hell, a woman got married to the Berlin wall, another to the Eiffel tower. It's possible :d.

I doubt that's sexual attraction though.

But imagine sex with a car.

Objectophilia. It is indeed sexual attraction.



highwaystar101 said:
After having it explained to me many, many times I still fail to see, apart from a few extremely tenuous verses, where the bible condemns homosexuality.

I think that it is just a side agenda that has been adopted by some Catholics and they have tried to justify it with the bible.

Leviticus, chapter 18 verse 22  (New American Bible English translation) "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination." and Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed, they have forfeited their lives."

 

I did a whole research paper on those two laws last term, and got a 95 on it, but basically the laws are really hard to contextualize in the modern debate about homosexuality, since they specifically condemn homosexual acts (and then the exact Hebrew only specifically condemns anal penetration, and the one from chapter 18 only specifically condemns the penetrator, as it were), and there is some question as to whether they felt that the whole concept of homosexuality was abominable from a moral standpoint (though there is evidence to that effect, as the Hebrew words for man and woman have intrinsic in them what makes a proper man and woman), or condemned for more practical concerns (adult men were married, having sex with each other would lead to some drastic social problems), or even if they had a problem with homosexual acts for the same reason that they kept kosher, a point which would be irrelevant either way for modern Christians.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
highwaystar101 said:
After having it explained to me many, many times I still fail to see, apart from a few extremely tenuous verses, where the bible condemns homosexuality.

I think that it is just a side agenda that has been adopted by some Catholics and they have tried to justify it with the bible.

Leviticus, chapter 18 verse 22  (New American Bible English translation) "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination." and Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed, they have forfeited their lives."

 

I did a whole research paper on those two laws last term, and got a 95 on it, but basically the laws are really hard to contextualize in the modern debate about homosexuality, since they specifically condemn homosexual acts (and then the exact Hebrew only specifically condemns anal penetration, and the one from chapter 18 only specifically condemns the penetrator, as it were), and there is some question as to whether they felt that the whole concept of homosexuality was abominable from a moral standpoint (though there is evidence to that effect, as the Hebrew words for man and woman have intrinsic in them what makes a proper man and woman), or condemned for more practical concerns (adult men were married, having sex with each other would lead to some drastic social problems), or even if they had a problem with homosexual acts for the same reason that they kept kosher, a point which would be irrelevant either way for modern Christians.

Leviticus also calls eating shellfish, pork and all sorts of other things. It really pisses me off that modern Christians use Leviticus to condemn homosexuality but then ignore the vast number of other things listed as abominations.



Mr Khan said:

Leviticus, chapter 18 verse 22  (New American Bible English translation) "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination." and Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed, they have forfeited their lives."

I did a whole research paper on those two laws last term, and got a 95 on it, but basically the laws are really hard to contextualize in the modern debate about homosexuality, since they specifically condemn homosexual acts (and then the exact Hebrew only specifically condemns anal penetration, and the one from chapter 18 only specifically condemns the penetrator, as it were), and there is some question as to whether they felt that the whole concept of homosexuality was abominable from a moral standpoint (though there is evidence to that effect, as the Hebrew words for man and woman have intrinsic in them what makes a proper man and woman), or condemned for more practical concerns (adult men were married, having sex with each other would lead to some drastic social problems), or even if they had a problem with homosexual acts for the same reason that they kept kosher, a point which would be irrelevant either way for modern Christians.

Hmm... my reading of this gives me only condemnation of bisexuality. I sure wouldn't "lie" with a woman the same way I would with a man. So that would make me fine?

Some people believe in the words of the bible; that's fine. I personally don't, but I won't be bothered by someone else's beliefs until they try shoving them down my throat or restrict what I can do that anyone else can do freely. This line also plays into the thought I've had in that you can read whatever you want to out of the bible; it's all a matter of how your twist words.



-dunno001

-On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...