supermario128 said:
trangentspree said:
Are mafia made aware of who the other mafia in the game are at the start or do they find out during the first night?
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That would be a perfect cover up if you sctually were mafia, acting all innocent. :P
FoS: trangentspree
@Dsister
He could be busy, or just doesn't have anything to add. There isn't much to add the first day.
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I realise that, but there was a reason why I asked the question.
Both WoW and Zexen have displayed a strong group mentality since Day 1 began, and I would argue that their behaviour (especially WoW's) is consistent with what I would expect of scum trying to defeat the town.
Someone already made an interesting observation that although WoW has been consistently against "contentless" posts this game, her first two posts were in fact "contentless" (here and here) and just three posts down on the same page WoW snaps on someone for a contentless post and launches into a tirade...
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I'm always suspicious of people who post things like this. If all you do is post the minimum amount in the game, basically the "Hi, I'm here" type of post, then you're really not trying to scum hunt or helping the town. And, of course, if you're not helping the town then we may as well lynch you, scum or not.
I think, beyond this point, anyone who makes contentless posts in the thread like this one should be viewed as scummy.
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That's quite a shift of tact right there all by itself.
What has stood out to me also is how both Zexen and WoW have remained completely out of conflict with each another and in fact happen to be working in concert so far in this game. WoW has deferred to Zexen for an opinion on another user both here and here, and Xen supported WoW here and then makes a pretty tenuous argument to defend WoW against people startled by her/his controlling attitude. Let's look at this...
There's one reason to trust WoW (ok, not TRUST, but at least now completely discard what she says). That is, we know her alignment very soon, it inevitably happens. So, if she's misleading us, it will be for one night only. WoW knows this perfectly (and I've discussed this with her outside mafia games, that she can't be a good mafia because she draws an investigation from the cop right from the beginning).
So, as a start, we should at least not distrust her for this one day, for if she's playing with us, she'll be caught soon
Of course I've considered the possibility of WoW being an SK, but that would meant that at first she'll be more interested in mafia dying, now town.
As for the suspects today, obviously hatmoza isn't doing anything to defend himself. I'm not yet voting him, but I think it'll be ultimately on what this day will end.
For Scifiboy, I wanna say that I've looked at him a couple games, he always has his not-so-useful posts, just stating what has been said before, whether he's scum or town, and Jo is the same. They're doing it again this time, and it's nothing to be surprised of. Doesn't bring any conclusions, doesn't help the town either. They're just trying not to be labeled as lurkers |
Why is it a good idea to believe what WoW says today because tomorrow we might might find out s/he's scum and know not to trust her then? Something to bear in mind, cop investigations can be blocked and cops can be both paranoid and insane. Even if neither these happen this game, we won't know who the cops are unless they role-claim and even then we have to believe them first. I don't think WoW is in any immediate danger because of her current position.
Hatmoza could well be scum, but it's interesting to note how these rules of trust do not apply to him, because he's not worth waiting until the next day to find out about.
And why is it so wrong to want to wait until Day 2 to start lynching people when we actually have some facts to talk about? It must be pretty wrong because WoW goes so far as to threaten to ask TruckoSaurus to force us to lynch someone today. But then later on s/he decides to tell us how we should be playing mafia...
| Just so people can understand where I'm coming from, I'll explain a bit about mafia.
The goal in mafia is to see through lies and use logic to catch scum. Scum will play differently than the town because their objective is different so the goal of good townsfolk is to catch scum by watching for their odd behavior, looking for "scum tells," and finally lynching them. After you lynch someone, you look at all their old posts and everyone else's. Look at who they talked to, who they agreed with, who they disagreed with, who defended them, who they defended, and much more. You use those connections to help you hunt for more scum.
The people voting "no lynch" aren't playing mafia. They're not scum hunting. They're not analyzing or bothering to look for suspicious behavior. That stuff doesn't just magically appear but it does come through via discussion. The more we talk, the more we accuse, and the more we pressure people the more likely it becomes that they'll slip up. Just saying "We don't have enough evidence" and voting "No Lynch" isn't how the game is or should be played.
I want to have fun and actually play mafia. It'd be nice if more people felt the same.
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This is why I believe waiting until Day 2 is the best tactic. Unless a miracle occurs, people are bound to be killed off during Night 1. When that happens, we can do everything here WoW suggests we do: "look at all their old posts and everyone else's. Look at who they talked to, who they agreed with, who they disagreed with, who defended them, who they defended, and much more. You use those connections to help you hunt for more scum" That to me is not an argument to lynch on Day 1 based entirely on speculation and instinct-led suspicions, that to me is an argument to wait until we can make a strong case who is scum based on this level of investigation - which is possible Day 2.
And there really is no "way" this game "should" be played - what the town's objective should be is to scum hunt as well as keep as many townies alive as possible - to me lynching someone on Day 1 based on spurious initial impressions does not fit well with this idea. This is how WoW sees tomorrow going if we don't lynch someone today...
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Day 1: No Lynch
Day 2: Cop - WoW is innocent!
Day 2: Everyone else - We don't have enough evidence to lynch anyone ?????
We're heading to exactly the same position tomorrow as we are today only with me as confirmed pro-town and one or more dead townies.
I'd rather lynch someone today and get a sense of who said what during Day 1 so we actually have stuff to go on tomorrow.
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Surely this would only be the case if absolutely nothing occured during the night. Even if this did happen, we wouldb't be just in the same position because we wouldn't lose a townie and WoW would have been partially vindicated - so we would be in a stronger position. Lastly...
| You see, it's really hard for scum to find people suspicious because they don't scum hunt. They can't, because they know who they are. So it's pretty common to see scum going "Well I have no idea who's scum" because they don't want to finger one another and they certainly don't want to seem suspicious by becoming directly responsible for a mislynch. Scum are often willing to bandwagon but unwilling to fire the first shot. That's exactly what you've been doing here. |
This could be how WoW thinks someone who is scum would behave because they are scum. Or it could be the opposite to what WoW thinks she needs to be seen doing to avoid people thinking that she is scum.
This is another argument assuming people who vote 'no lynch' will consistently vote the same way throughout the game based on them voting 'no lynch' on Day 1, which I see no justification in.
To me, if the mafia already know who their fellow mafia chums are, they already know who the "us" part of them vs us is. Their goal is to kill off as many people outside their group as possible, as quickly as possible. The combination of a mislynch during the day and an effective kill during the night make this a possibility. And Attempting to force people into lyching someone Day 1 based on no real information whatsoever fits into that agenda to me.
So. I will still be voting "no lynch" for today. And I would suggest we watch WoW and Zexen very carefully from now on.
I'd like to hear other people's thoughts about this.
[EDIT: to correct Zexen's name - really stuipid of me - very sorry! 
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