By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Mafia Round 14 - Game Thread

axumblade said:
Final-Fan said:
And now that I think about it the mafia were even more overpowered. One team got the Mafia Cop, which just gives away roles. The other was a roleblocker, WHICH COULD BLOCK THE DOCTOR. so if the doc and cop were out and the blocker was alive (which the town didn't know about), bye bye cop.

My role became useless after I discovered trashleg to be mafia after all of the other people were dead by the 2nd night...It's not like I was told who the deputy or nurse were. I figured that tragentspree or zexen were SK, which is why I targeted them and I was never told "hey. this person is the SK!" The role wasn't that useful in all honesty.

Also, there were only 3 of us. 2 of us were the only ones active during the game. And I'm the only one who was available to participate the majority of the game because Falcon wanted to stay in the game despite not having much time to give to the game.

IIRC, the cop only ever found one or two mafia (with his role power), dsister was just that awesome. 
And finding trashleg ensured that you didn't kill fellow scum unintentionally. 
And like I said, there were also roles the town had that didn't see much use. 

And ... am I understanding you right?  Are you saying your power was less useful because so many town power roles were dead by night 2What a tragedy for the mafia



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Around the Network

Can't we all just hug and move on? :/



well, Ive said enough for this round, I think ive made some valid complaints and I hope people took them onboard, I dont want to spend another month arguing over things though, so if you dont agree lets just agree to leave it, this thread has gone on more than long enough and im only getting fed up with things now.



Final-Fan said:

It looks more unbalanced when you FORGET THREE MAFIA. (And the Vigilante.) Here's the list I got from TOS's scoreboard:
Townie x 9
Nurse
Cop [SUBSTITUTED]
Friendly Neighbor
Alcoholic Night Watchman
Doctor
Deputy
Bus Driver
Vigilante [MODKILLED]
Jail Keeper

Serial Killer
Mafia T
Mafia T [MODKILLED]
Mafia C
Mafia C [SUBSTITUTED]
Mafia C [MODKILLED]
Mafia C Roleblocker [MODKILLED]
Mafia T Cop

And even if the mafia cop wasn't much good to you this game, it's not like there weren't a bunch of townie roles that didn't do any good.

[edit:  Added detail to list.  I thought that instead of forgetting 3 mafia and the vigilante you might have been just subtracting the modkills, but no.  So now we see that the town had 1 modkill and 1 substitution and the mafia had 3 modkills and one substitution.  Considering that the mafia started out grossly overpowered ... I don't see a problem with the modkillings nor with the choice to substitute for the cop.  Hey, the mafia got one sub too.]

[edit2:  ... well, you probably have a point about lestatdark.  It probably wouldn't have been that hard to find him a substitute; hell, I would have stepped in.  But that's not a problem of substituting the cop, it's NOT substituting lestat.]

Er.. I did substracted the modkills, what's the point of adding those? All that they probably did was delay the night, and they were modkilled by day 2, It's practically like if they hadn't played.

There's a difference between a useless role and a role that is useful but for whatever reason doesn't have the opportunity. The point of a mafia cop is to find other mafia factions so the faction with the cop lynch (or kill) the other faction, but guess what, the other family practically got modkilled and we reached a situation in which we didn't want the other mafia to be killed or lynched. Not only that but also we had 1 less mafia because of this role, so if you see in this situation having a mafia cop was worse than not having it.

Yes, I'm aware that the mafia was overpowered at the beginning by that day 2 it was the contrary. The towny had numerical and role advantage. And MM's and dtewi's replacement was way different.

Once again, I don't mind replacements, replacements are pretty common in this game but there are 2 wrong things about that replacement in this game.

1- The cop was replaced while a mafia in practically the same situation was modkilled earier

2- The way the person who replaced the cop was picked. I know that there hadnt been a case like this so I understand, but if a dead person replaces a living one there should be a way to pick it in which every dead person (who contributed to the game of course) has the opportunity to be the one replacing, like I said to zex, if we're gonna pick whoever posts in the thread and says "hey I'm here" we'll be in a unnecessary and annoying situation in which everydead person will post "hey I'm here".

If you look at my posts, that's what I've been saying.. Truck should've either killed dtewi or found lestatdark a replacement, the reason of why I'm saying dtewi should've been modkilled is because lestatdark was already modkilled when dtewi had the problems, and it was impossible to replace lestatdark since his role was already revealed.

TruckOSaurus said:
First, Falcon095 I think you've made more posts post-game then in-game. :P

Second, the modkills and replacement were not made with favoring any side in mind. It was all a question of participation and opportunity. When makingmusic dropped out, I had already noticed that trashleg was interested in joining the game.

When dtewi notified me, the initial plan was to modkill him and transfer his role to a regular townie but that would have caused a lot of confusion. Then I saw that dsister had mentionned three times I wouldn't mind joining back, I thought it would help the game move along because it was so damn slow.

Also, I did have a co-mod, nordlead, and I consulted with him about the dtewi replacement. His only concern was that dsister might have talked about the game with other dead players so I made sure he didn't and went along with the replacement.

I don't have exams anymore

I'm not saying that you did everything on porpuse to screw us, I know you didn't with any favoring in any side in mind. Yes, and that's what everybody mod should've done since the game was just starting. When somebody has problems since the beginning and can't participate, the best is to search a replacement.

What about lestatdark? He and Dtewi was in pretty much the same situation but you decided to modkill him and replace dtewi. As long as it was somebody who would've talked, it wouldn't have matter who replaced dtewi, but I think you should've done at least a random.org between the ones who wanted and could play.

I guess you're saying the last in order to show that you didn't make the decition alone, which is OK. But it's still wrong in this game in particular, and I'm saying it so it won't repeat.

zexen_lowe said:

Well, if you give X townie his role, you just announce the modkilled was townie and don't say anything else, you don't say that you gave it to someone else. When I swapped roles after someone lurking I told the one that received it (I think it was Falcon) in PM and didn't tell the town anything

But there is a difference between your situation and Truck's. In your game nobody knew who the doctor was so you just killed the other and gave the role to me. Truck couldn't do that because every player knew dtewi was the cop, and if Truck had gave the role to other towny and modkilled him, the towny would've had 1 less towny.

Words Of Wisdom said:
Can't we all just hug and move on? :/

No, This is the internet!

 



||Tag courtesy of fkusumot - "Heaven is like a Nintendo theme park!"||Join the Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 American League HERE!||

Falcon095 said:
Final-Fan said:
It looks more unbalanced when you FORGET THREE MAFIA.
[list redacted]

And even if the mafia cop wasn't much good to you this game, it's not like there weren't a bunch of townie roles that didn't do any good.

[edit:  Added detail to list.  I thought that instead of forgetting 3 mafia and the vigilante you might have been just subtracting the modkills, but no.  So now we see that the town had 1 modkill and 1 substitution and the mafia had 3 modkills and one substitution.  Considering that the mafia started out grossly overpowered ... I don't see a problem with the modkillings nor with the choice to substitute for the cop.  Hey, the mafia got one sub too.]

[edit2:  ... well, you probably have a point about lestatdark.  It probably wouldn't have been that hard to find him a substitute; hell, I would have stepped in.  But that's not a problem of substituting the cop, it's NOT substituting lestat.]

Er.. I did substracted the modkills, what's the point of adding those? All that they probably did was delay the night, and they were modkilled by day 2, It's practically like if they hadn't played.

There's a difference between a useless role and a role that is useful but for whatever reason doesn't have the opportunity. The point of a mafia cop is to find other mafia factions so the faction with the cop lynch (or kill) the other faction, but guess what, the other family practically got modkilled and we reached a situation in which we didn't want the other mafia to be killed or lynched. Not only that but also we had 1 less mafia because of this role, so if you see in this situation having a mafia cop was worse than not having it.

Yes, I'm aware that the mafia was overpowered at the beginning by that day 2 it was the contrary. The towny had numerical and role advantage. And MM's and dtewi's replacement was way different.

Once again, I don't mind replacements, replacements are pretty common in this game but there are 2 wrong things about that replacement in this game.

1- The cop was replaced while a mafia in practically the same situation was modkilled earier

2- The way the person who replaced the cop was picked. I know that there hadnt been a case like this so I understand, but if a dead person replaces a living one there should be a way to pick it in which every dead person (who contributed to the game of course) has the opportunity to be the one replacing, like I said to zex, if we're gonna pick whoever posts in the thread and says "hey I'm here" we'll be in a unnecessary and annoying situation in which everydead person will post "hey I'm here".

If you look at my posts, that's what I've been saying.. Truck should've either killed dtewi or found lestatdark a replacement, the reason of why I'm saying dtewi should've been modkilled is because lestatdark was already modkilled when dtewi had the problems, and it was impossible to replace lestatdark since his role was already revealed.

Well, you did it incorrectly, I believe. 

Your list: 
2x Corleone mafia
Mafia cop
Mafia hitman

TOS's list (excluding modkilled mafia): 
2x corleone mafia
1x tattaglia mafia
Mafia cop (Tattaglia)

Notice the lack of a "mafia hitman" on TOS's list and the presence of an extra Tattaglia mafia.  That threw me off.  I thought you just said hitman instead of roleblocker by mistake, so then your list would have included modkilled mafia members and hence my post about the list.  

You're absolutely wrong about the mafia cop, only PART of its function is identifying other scum factions' members.  Another part (bigger IMO) is identifying PRO-TOWN power roles which can then be eliminated.  Imagine finding the doctor! or an unclaimed cop or whatever. 

As for lestatdark, that hurt you less than losing the cop would have hurt the town IMO.  Maybe the "power transfer" thing would have been a better, though still very imperfect, solution.  But just axing the cop would have been pretty much just ending the game in favor of the mafia, which would be a pretty dumb way to end the game IMO. 

But I have more sympathy for your position than SFB's. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Around the Network
axumblade said:
Final-Fan said:
IIRC, the cop only ever found one or two mafia (with his role power), dsister was just that awesome. 
And finding trashleg ensured that you didn't kill fellow scum unintentionally. 
And like I said, there were also roles the town had that didn't see much use. 

And ... am I understanding you right?  Are you saying your power was less useful because so many town power roles were dead by night 2What a tragedy for the mafia

I do believe you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Too many anti-town powerroles were dead by night 2. If I knew who the other mafia were, I'd know who I should and shouldn't really go for. I'm saying my role became useless once I discovered the 4th member of their mafia (which was helpful in the sense that I learned there was 1 more mafia member but that's about it.)

I guess I was; sorry.  But you're absolutely wrong:  the mafia cop is a very powerful role for DETECTING PROTOWN POWER ROLES.  Aside, of course, from (in this case) ensuring that you didn't kill a mafia by accident. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Words Of Wisdom said:
Can't we all just hug and move on? :/

hugs!

 

And I've said before(I think) that had I known that people would have had a problem with it then I would have said no 



Final-Fan said:

Well, you did it incorrectly, I believe. 

Your list: 
2x Corleone mafia
Mafia cop
Mafia hitman

TOS's list (excluding modkilled mafia): 
2x corleone mafia
1x tattaglia mafia
Mafia cop (Tattaglia)

Notice the lack of a "mafia hitman" on TOS's list and the presence of an extra Tattaglia mafia.  That threw me off.  I thought you just said hitman instead of roleblocker by mistake, so then your list would have included modkilled mafia members and hence my post about the list.  

You're absolutely wrong about the mafia cop, only PART of its function is identifying other scum factions' members.  Another part (bigger IMO) is identifying PRO-TOWN power roles which can then be eliminated.  Imagine finding the doctor! or an unclaimed cop or whatever. 

As for lestatdark, that hurt you less than losing the cop would have hurt the town IMO.  Maybe the "power transfer" thing would have been a better, though still very imperfect, solution.  But just axing the cop would have been pretty much just ending the game in favor of the mafia, which would be a pretty dumb way to end the game IMO. 

But I have more sympathy for your position than SFB's. 

Well it's practically the same but one says hitman and the other doesn't so if somebody is wrong that's Truck

Yes, you're right about that but doesn't exactly improves the situation, there was just 1 among 10-15 townies that could've came with a guilty situation. I don't know you, but I would rather get 1 more mafia than a role that could fine 1 mafia among 10-15 players.

In a 1:1 situation its worse to lose a cop than a mafia, but in the game in particular the towny had a doctor, a nurse, the alcoholic I don't remember what, the friendly neightbor and plenty of townies agaisnt 2 mafias and a SK. Don't tell me that killing the cop would've destroyed the game because it's not true. If killing the cop would've ended the game it's townies fault for mislynching too much.

Final-Fan said:

I guess I was; sorry.  But you're absolutely wrong:  the mafia cop is a very powerful role for DETECTING PROTOWN POWER ROLES.  Aside, of course, from (in this case) ensuring that you didn't kill a mafia by accident. 

You make it sound like if there were plenty of people who could've been innocent lol

dsister44 said:

And I've said before(I think) that had I known that people would have had a problem with it then I would have said no 

Everybody who would've complained or been against it (weather that being fair or not), would've been #1 suspicious and you know it.



||Tag courtesy of fkusumot - "Heaven is like a Nintendo theme park!"||Join the Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 American League HERE!||

Falcon095 said:
dsister44 said:

And I've said before(I think) that had I known that people would have had a problem with it then I would have said no 

Everybody who would've complained or been against it (weather that being fair or not), would've been #1 suspicious and you know it.

I mean like now in the post game 



Final-Fan said:
Falcon095 said:
Final-Fan said:
It looks more unbalanced when you FORGET THREE MAFIA.
[list redacted]

And even if the mafia cop wasn't much good to you this game, it's not like there weren't a bunch of townie roles that didn't do any good.

[edit:  Added detail to list.  I thought that instead of forgetting 3 mafia and the vigilante you might have been just subtracting the modkills, but no.  So now we see that the town had 1 modkill and 1 substitution and the mafia had 3 modkills and one substitution.  Considering that the mafia started out grossly overpowered ... I don't see a problem with the modkillings nor with the choice to substitute for the cop.  Hey, the mafia got one sub too.]

[edit2:  ... well, you probably have a point about lestatdark.  It probably wouldn't have been that hard to find him a substitute; hell, I would have stepped in.  But that's not a problem of substituting the cop, it's NOT substituting lestat.]

Er.. I did substracted the modkills, what's the point of adding those? All that they probably did was delay the night, and they were modkilled by day 2, It's practically like if they hadn't played.

There's a difference between a useless role and a role that is useful but for whatever reason doesn't have the opportunity. The point of a mafia cop is to find other mafia factions so the faction with the cop lynch (or kill) the other faction, but guess what, the other family practically got modkilled and we reached a situation in which we didn't want the other mafia to be killed or lynched. Not only that but also we had 1 less mafia because of this role, so if you see in this situation having a mafia cop was worse than not having it.

Yes, I'm aware that the mafia was overpowered at the beginning by that day 2 it was the contrary. The towny had numerical and role advantage. And MM's and dtewi's replacement was way different.

Once again, I don't mind replacements, replacements are pretty common in this game but there are 2 wrong things about that replacement in this game.

1- The cop was replaced while a mafia in practically the same situation was modkilled earier

2- The way the person who replaced the cop was picked. I know that there hadnt been a case like this so I understand, but if a dead person replaces a living one there should be a way to pick it in which every dead person (who contributed to the game of course) has the opportunity to be the one replacing, like I said to zex, if we're gonna pick whoever posts in the thread and says "hey I'm here" we'll be in a unnecessary and annoying situation in which everydead person will post "hey I'm here".

If you look at my posts, that's what I've been saying.. Truck should've either killed dtewi or found lestatdark a replacement, the reason of why I'm saying dtewi should've been modkilled is because lestatdark was already modkilled when dtewi had the problems, and it was impossible to replace lestatdark since his role was already revealed.

Well, you did it incorrectly, I believe. 

Your list: 
2x Corleone mafia
Mafia cop
Mafia hitman

TOS's list (excluding modkilled mafia): 
2x corleone mafia
1x tattaglia mafia
Mafia cop (Tattaglia)

Notice the lack of a "mafia hitman" on TOS's list and the presence of an extra Tattaglia mafia.  That threw me off.  I thought you just said hitman instead of roleblocker by mistake, so then your list would have included modkilled mafia members and hence my post about the list.  

You're absolutely wrong about the mafia cop, only PART of its function is identifying other scum factions' members.  Another part (bigger IMO) is identifying PRO-TOWN power roles which can then be eliminated.  Imagine finding the doctor! or an unclaimed cop or whatever. 

As for lestatdark, that hurt you less than losing the cop would have hurt the town IMO.  Maybe the "power transfer" thing would have been a better, though still very imperfect, solution.  But just axing the cop would have been pretty much just ending the game in favor of the mafia, which would be a pretty dumb way to end the game IMO. 

But I have more sympathy for your position than SFB's. 


my position is simple: I dont think you should put dead players back in the game as its unfair.

what is so hard for you to accept that?

heck, you asked me to confirm this, and then you ignored it...