You can't look at history to see what religion shows the most promise. You can with economics.

Obama is not trying anything new. It's been tried dozens of times before, and failed every time. What the other side wants, has worked many times.

It's not religion.

I wasn't really making a serious point, more explaining why we question authority on such things as economics.

And, it's not as black-and-white as you make out, else-wise there wouldn't be different viewpoints.

I totally agree, good luck encouraging supply side policies from Obama. He's ushering in this reformation of the U.S healthcare system, and to increase supply/output would undermine, these heavily tax-funded reforms. - Could de-regulating the Labour market help? - Just a thought, seeing as much of U.S manufacturing is, in compliance with NAFTA, Mexican based, therefore an increase in amount of domestic labour, could up output, as exports will be strengthened due to a weak Dollar...

Excuse my poorly refined Economics knowledge!

Uh... the USA is listed as 4 there overall.

Behind Singapore, New Zealand and Hong Kong.

None of those countries would be in Europe.

When it comes to "Hiring and firing" the thing we were talking  about... the US is listed number 1.  Which you can find when you look at the actual breakdown of that list.

So no... once again... I'm not wrong.

Then again... as an article I read points out.

Us Exports have dropped to 947 billion from 1.2 trillion so...


So that first 20% will just be catchup...

I wonder if this will mean the opposite of what we're thinking. He's going to try and fight protectionism and have American products fight on their own merit.

Seems like a bad Idea though considering we'd compete most with the EU and Canada for our "level" of goods, and the EU is even more protectionist then the US and has no reason to not be.

Apparently to experts he'd have to do these things.

"The trouble, trade experts say, is that meeting that goal would require the president to engage in a fight to the death with the liberal wing of his own party, persuade China to allow its currency to appreciate 40 percent, get global economic growth to outperform the salad days from 2003 to 2007, and lower taxes for American companies that do business abroad."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/business/29trade.html

Seems... tough.

I found an interesting Article about productivity.

It says yes Americans are the most productive BUT and here it comes not per hour just overall. Because they actually spend more time then other countrys:

"American workers are most productive, but some Europeans do better per hour"

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/01/content_260191.htm (Study UN)

The difference in productivity between Europe and USA is non existant if you count it per hour. 

I think its a good idea to export more stuff. I dont think they can do this much but its good if the economy has two strong areas if one is weaker then the other can help out. In Germany the export is 47% of the total economy. Its a point of weakness here because we rely on exports too much germans dont spend their money they safe it since the 50s (they just dont get that its not that good to safe money) But USA is the other extreme they spend to much and make to much debts and export is to small.

Thats why Chinas national bank is the place on earth were they have by far the most dollars. They have even more Dollars then any bank in USA.

And because of the Myth that USA gets the highest wages thats not true since decades:

I show you an example here is the List for all Countrys in the world which shows that aslong as counted in INT Dollar the real Income of the USA cant be showed. First method is unfair because prefers USA because it counts in Int Dollars and second method is unfair because it prefers Europe because its counted in US-Dollars.

I explain what an International Dollar is: It is a fictional currency which represents the purchasing power of the Dollar at a given time. Mostly 1990 or 2000 nowadays. If a currency lost value because of Inflation the international Dollar shows the real worth the currency has. Exchange rates have nothing to do with it. The Euro is way less worth then in 2000 the International Dollar is worth more then the Euro because it nevr loses value. 

That works fine if you compare all countrys except the USA as seen in the first chart it is all counted in International Dollar in the second its all counted in US Dollar.  But surprisingly the US has still the same number because International Dollar and Dollar are transfered one to one. But the US Dollar has lost a lot compared to the Dollar 10 or 20 years ago.

First rank shows the rank of all countrys except US it should have been lower. Second shows everything just calculated in US Dollar with the Exchange rate in 2008 but here the Europeans are prefered due to the exchange rate. US should be higher there it should be between 6th place and 15th place.

Link: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Länder_nach_Bruttoinlandsprodukt_pro_Kopf

Ok here it is in international Dollars and then US Dollars:

Rang Land 2008 BIP (PPP) pro Kopf

Int. Dollar

1 Katar/Quatar 85.868

2 Luxemburg/Luxembourg 82.306

3 Norwegen/Norway 53.451

4 Singapur 51.142

5 Brunei 50.117

6 Vereinigte Staaten/USA 46.859

7 Hongkong 43.811

8 Schweiz/Switzerland 42.783

9 Irland/Irland 42.539

10 Niederlande/Netherlands 40.431

11 Island/Iceland 40.025

12 Kuwait 39.850

13 Österreich/Austria 39.634

14 Kanada 39.183

15 Vereinigte Arabische Emirate 38.830

16 Australien 37.299

17 Dänemark/Denmark 37.266

18 Schweden/Sweden 37.245

19 Vereinigtes Königreich/Uk 36.523

20 Belgien/belgium 36.235

21 Finnland/Finnland 36.217

22 Deutschland/Germany 35.442

23 Bahrain 34.605

24 Frankreich/france 34.208

25 Japan 34.100

26 Taiwan 30.881

27 Spanien/Spain 30.621

28 Italien/italy 30.581

29 Griechenland/greece 30.535

30 Zypern/cyprus 29.830

Rang Land 2008 BIP pro Kopf

US-Dollar

1 Luxemburg/luxembourg 113.044

2 Norwegen/ norway 95.062

3 Katar/Quatar 93.204

4 Schweiz/Switzerland 67.385

5 Dänemark/Denmark 62.626

6 Irland 61.810

7 Island/Iceland 55.462

8 Vereinigte Arabische Emirate 54.607

9 Schweden 52.790

10 Niederlande/Netherlands 52.019

11 Finnland 51.989

12 Österreich/Austria 50.098

13 Australien 47.400

14 Belgien 47.108

15 Vereinigte Staaten/USA 46.859

16 Frankreich/France 46.016

17 Kuwait 45.920

18 Kanada 45.428

19 Deutschland/Germany 44.660

20 Vereinigtes Königreich/UK 43.785

21 Italien/Italy 38.996

22 Singapur 38.972

23 Japan 38.559

24 Brunei 37.053

25 Spanien/Spain 35.331

26 Zypern/Cyprus 32.772

27 Griechenland/Greece 32.005

28 Hongkong 30.755

29 Neuseeland/New zealand 30.049

30 Israel 28.365

(Somehow I wasnt able to Post the charts so I had to transfer them, for some countrys I made a translation). If someone wants to know why Iceland and Ireland ranks so high in the Int dollar income it was a chart before the crisis. And they are small economys so but had gigantic Bankprojects due to some tax advantages which has influenced the chart.

This numbers are from the IMF (headquarter washington DC) so they are reliable. But still it doesnt reflect the real wealth of the people in those countrys. The Prices are different for the goods in each country also taxes and so on. Infact there is no real way to measure the income and compare it to different countrys. For example the gas prices are way higher in Europe than USA also the duty to insure your car. And the duty to have a health insurance. It all affects how much money actually someone has in the pocket. In Scandinavia you pay insane prices for alcohol or Luxury goods.

So even if you have less in some Countrys you can actually buy more stuff. But also there are things which used to be cheaper in Europe (ofcourse not now from US perspective because of the exchange rate).

What I want to say is that there is no real difference between the countrys in the western world the differences are there but they are smaller then ever. Also USA and EU have comparable economys. EU has a  bigger Economy due to the fact it has more people. But USA is still the single country with the biggest Economical Power. I just want to stop that myth USA is better in all disciplines because thats not true. 

I remember the times were Clinton was still President and USA was filthy rich they almost drown in Dollars because evrything worked so well. Today it is in really  bad condition. If USA gives Obama enough time I think the economy should be ok again. Its good for us all if US is strong. Because of the weak Dollar the US Citizens cant buy our stuff anymore. its a way to increase sells of products produced in US but its also a way to damage the dollar. China and other big economys start to switch to the euro. And especially for a Nation like USA which likes to import stuff it is contra productive over a longer time period. I really hope that USA will be healthy again. I dont like the vision of China beeing Number one Economy in the world. And Hopefully USA will gain strength to be the counter weight for china. Is good he increase exports and the financial crisis has also its opportunitys. A crisis has to happen the bigget the crisis the higher the following economic upturn. 

Problem Net.

Your study is from 2003.

US workers actually surpassed everyone else in recent studies.

For a Wikiepdia list...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_hour_worked

Sorry that I have to disappoint you but you made a mistake. I explained above why its not that easy with such charts. Infact the number for US would be WAY lower then this.

I explain it again. This chart is measured in INTERNATIONAL DOLLARS. International Dollars are a fictional currency which represents the value of the dollar at a given time point. 1990 or 2000. All currencys lose value through the years. But International Dollar stays stable. This Dollar you can see on your chart is MORE worth then the Euro. It has not lost any value over the years thats the idea behind the international dollar. look at my chart.l

We have two charts MY list is once with International Dollars and Once with US Dollars. You can click on the link to check the data fif you want. both charts show USA one time with US Dollars and One time in International Dollars.

US Dollars 15  Vereinigte Staaten/USA  46.859

Int Dollars 6  Vereinigte Staaten/USA  46.859

Hmm weird huh all currencys have lost against the International Dollar look Luxembourg earned 113000 US DOLLARS. But in the other table it has just 86000 International Dollars. So the US Dollar lost actually value against the International Dollar. Yes every currency lost value against the international dollar BUT they transfer the US Dollar one to one. One Int Dollar equals One US Dollar.  But thats not true. This is the priviliege the USA has because they have the World currency. So they have also a better position.

lets calculate in the year 2008 Luxembourg had a average income of 113000 Dollar per year. This equals 86000 International Dollars. So lets do the math to see how much US Dollars an International Dollar is REALLY worth. 83000/113000 roughly 75 Cent. One Us Dollar equals roughly 75 Cent of the International Dollar in the year 2008 nowadays its even less due to inflation. Every country gives a slightly different result depending on currency and prices in the region But we can say since the countrys range between 72-78 Cent International Dollar per US Dollar we can assume that One Us Dollar is about 75 International Dollar Cent. We can also take 80 Cent. If you want. It is ofcourse harder to calculate because not only the inflation but also the costs for the standard basket will be calculated in the value of the yearly income in International Dollars. So US could be a little higher or lower. But we know for sure that US Dollar has lost significant value the last 10 years. because every single currency has it. 

All currencys on your list are translated in the International Dollar except the US Dollar because US Dollar=International Dollar but in reality US Dollar =/= International Dollar. So its obvious why the US is on the first place. Its ofcourse common and accepted but this is one of the many priviliges which US can have but this is just cosmetic not the reality. 

Ok lets calculate 80 Cent International Dollar per US Dollar /thats less loss then the Euro or Pound or Yen had against International Dollar:

Ok 36.88 US= International Dollars per Capita per hour *0,80 equals 29.50 US Dollars. Infact this is the real figure US has. Int =/= Us Dollar but infact everyone calculates it like that. with this number we find USA between Finnland and Germany on 13 Place. And all studies have a sense again.

Bring me some other data and we can talk about that again but this data, you showed me just confirms my point.

I think this whole data stuff is nonsense its impossible to track all that stuff correctly. And its impossible to level the differences between the countrys so perfectly that you could really compare it. USA is not less or not more productive then the European or Japanese people that can change from area to area ofcourse but I mean in average. 

(I hopefully explained  it understandable why things measured in the international dollar are correct for all countrys except the US)

If not I will explain it tomorrow thorougly with further data  and more examples. 

I can't read your list...

However the list in American Dollars does not seem to adjust for PPP or Purchasing Power Parity.

Which is actualy where those "costs" you talk about are factored in... and why the currenies are rebalanced vs the dollar.

The two lists are incongruent because the two lists are measuring two different things.

One is measuring GDP... and the other is measuiring GDP adjusted for Purchasing Power Parity.

If you look closer at the two lists you provided, you will note that not all GDPs fall when changed to International Dollars.  Bahrain and a number of other countries get higher numbers.

The "costs of things" you talk about are what PPP is measuring.  The International Dollar could be based on the Euro, but the numbers still wouldn't change.  The US would still be where it was.

Things in the US are just cheaper then Europe by in large... hence why other rich nations "fall" when converted to International Dollars.

Other nations can afford less with the money they earn due to local PPP.