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Forums - PC Discussion - Ubisoft commit commercial suicide

irstupid said:
Twistedpixel said:
ChichiriMuyo said:

AnthonyW86 - If those people couldn't afford to buy the game then it didn't impact sales. You're assuming those people could have actually bought the game which is a huge mistake. Even assuming they had the money, it's a mistake. One in four people in the Western industrialized world (which already only makes a tiny fraction of the whole pirating pie)

Yep and if they can afford a pc to play advanced 3D games they can afford to pay for the games. But you can't pirate hardware, which is why they can 'afford' the PC but not the games.

yea thats a moronic excuse.  if you have a computer that can play these games you can afford a game.  hell there is never and excuse to pirate a game.  they are just cheap crooks, who think digital media is fine to steal. 

 

some say that they woudlnt' buy the game in the first place anyway, or just like to demo it first before buying to see if good.  Ha.  Can I go to the movie theater and get into a movie for free if I tell them that I didn't really want to see this movie, I just have free time and you have open seats.  I'm not hurting anybody now am I.  Or tell them I want to see the movie first before I decide if I want to buy the movie when it comes out. 

 

There is no excuse to pirate, not even if the game isn't brought to your country, or whatever reason you feel you have the right to pirate a game.  You can always find a way to buy a legit copy through the internet.  And if you are able to pirate that means you have an internet connection. 

I have a dual core laptop with over 2 gigs of ram and can play most games on it.  I got it for free.  Really, any kid with a half-assed understanding of computers can "fix" a PC that the computer illiterate would throw out for being "broken." 

Does my having a free, but relatively powerful, PC mean as a certainly that I can buy PC games?  No.  You are yet another person leading a relatively priveleged life if you think that it's perfectly natural to pay for everything out of your own pockets (or mommy's and daddy's, for some people).  For a very large portion of the population, especially in the "3rd world" countries, bartering plays a major role in daily life and most things are traded for.



You do not have the right to never be offended.

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AnthonyW86 said:
Kasz216 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
daggy said:

How about the third option: Make good games and sell what PC gamers want?

PC gaming has been increasing well, and right now there are more game developers on PC than in all consoles combined. Indie games (which are mostly single-player) are rising extremely fast on PC.

You dont really believe that do you? No matter how good a game is, if people can get it for free by pirating it most of them will.

And again this kind of system could eventually work. If they program PC version to get tiny parts of the game online during gameplay, it would be as piracy proof as WoW.

Incorrect.  According to current economic theory people WANT to pay for stuff at a fair price.  It's build in to our sociological makeup to WANT to purchase products.


People would rather pay a fair price then pirate.

I understand that, but i also think most people will feel like ''a thief of their own money'' if they buy a game when most people are getting practically for free by pirating it. So that way they would feel like they are being treated unfairly.

Anyways i hope most off us agree that being able to ban out piracy would be a good thing. And i really don't think Ubisofts approach is such a bad idea

Most people WOULDN'T be getting it for free though.  Because most people WANT to pay for stuff.

Banning piracy really wouldn't be a good thing... it would likely be completly irrelevent when it comes to sales in the western world.

The positive and negative effects of piracy have both been shown in the data to be very slight and hardly detectable if detectable at all statistically.


In the "less-developed" world... piracy would likely mosty be a non-factor in gaming... but positive in other software markets... and maybe some gaming with franchises such as Mario.

 

Microsoft has a little heard motto... "Don't pirate, but if you do... pirate us."   This is because when pirates "graduate" to being able to afford things like Windows and Office there is a VERY high correlation of them buying the product they pirated... because they've gotten used to the product.

 

Whether the same effect would carry over to videogames is unknown, and unlikely since gameplay changes drastically from game to game, and few people pay attention to company... however for brands like Mario and Call of Duty... stuff that isn't going away for generations... piracy could actually help those brands build up equity in developing markets and among people who are still "developing income."

 

The current situation is actually most profitable for buisnesses.  They can build up userbase while also getting concessions of different kinds from governments for "piracy losses" that can be expanded into ridiculious numbers.

 

 

Heck look at Microsoft on this matter though.  They're actually allowing people with pirated Windows 7 to get free updates.



AnthonyW86 said:
daggy said:

How about the third option: Make good games and sell what PC gamers want?

PC gaming has been increasing well, and right now there are more game developers on PC than in all consoles combined. Indie games (which are mostly single-player) are rising extremely fast on PC.

You dont really believe that do you? No matter how good a game is, if people can get it for free by pirating it most of them will.

And again this kind of system could eventually work. If they program PC version to get tiny parts of the game online during gameplay, it would be as piracy proof as WoW.

I can pirate if I wanted to but I have not. I bought the games and perhaps too much since I hadn't played nearly half of them and 25% or so of my games are still sealed.

I do a little research first before buying, however. So, if it's a bad game, it's unlikely (no way even if it's free) I would be buying it.

People pirate because they want to.

 

And then comparing your regular games with MMO is just... silly.



irstupid said:
ChichiriMuyo said:
That's not actually necessarily true, Twisted. There are a lot of ways to get PCs for very cheap, sometimes even free, that wouldn't necessarily apply to software. Like AW86, you've clearly led a life of relative privilege, and it's simply unfair of you to judge others by your standard of living. I, for one, have only bought one computer in my entire life yet I've had at least a dozen. Why is it, then, that my having a PC necessarily means that I can afford software?

I'll say this again - just because in YOUR life things have worked out a given way does not mean that your life is an appropriate model for the lives of others. Millions of people have computers they didn't pay for, actually, and your assumption that everyone who has one pays for one is laughably narrow-minded.

ah BLAMMING your life now huh.  grow up.  There are 100's of games I would have loved to play, but never got to because I can't afford to buy them all.  If I really wanted to play the game, say a new zelda comes out.  I will want to play that 1000%. there will be nothing stopping me from playing it.  I will figure out a way to get money, if I need to get a job at somewhere I woudl ahte like a convenient store or fast food or something.  If I coudlnt' then i would wait and ask for on birthday or christmas, if they didn't get me it I woudl still find a way.   Hell could even go and donate plasma a couple times a week for 40 dolars or something.  there are ways of getting money if you look.   I mean hell how many hours you spend wasting searching forums or posting on here about games.  you could spend that time looking for a way to make money or just working more hours at your current job.

 

No matter how poor I have gotten adn trust me I have been in negative for months till i got out, that just means I have to wait till i can get that game.  Hell I could even resort to borrowing from a friend or renting for a week from blockbuster or something.  Just because I'm struggling for a while doesn't GIVE ME THE RIGHT to steal. 

 

You aren't going out stealling food for yourself or family, or sleeping on the street because you can't pay rent or mortgage.  You figured out and cut back expenses in order to pay for those things.  NOw if you want a video game and are low on funds you have to cut back on other things to afford it.  Whether that means not buying a case of beer the next time you were going to or not going out to eat for a while.  That's part of life.  I dont' want to hear no Democratic shit and blame society and expect someone else to do it for you.  If you want something you have to work for it. 

 

Hell if you look at my games list, I have played a lot of games for current systems and yet I only own a Wii.  I have found a way to play and finish the other games for other systems if I really wanted to play that game.  And why I don't own the other two systems is because I can't afford to. 

Blaming?  Not in the least.  I too live a relatively priveleged life.  The thing is that I have perspective, and you don't.  I can afford to buy most of the things I want, but I'm sympathetic to the plight of those who simply can't.  You think being in the negatives for a few months is poor?  THAT is relative privelege.  The vast majority of people who pirate aren't allowed to go into the negatives.  If they run out of money, they just starve.  The idea of credit is foreign to them, and the fact that it isn't to us proves that we have so much more than the average pirate it is emberrasing.

Really, your whole argument is childish and baseless.  Every word of it drips of ignorant luxury, and shows you simply don't understand how good we've got it and how bad the REAL average person has it.  If anyone needs to grow up, it's you.



You do not have the right to never be offended.

ChichiriMuyo said:
irstupid said:
ChichiriMuyo said:
That's not actually necessarily true, Twisted. There are a lot of ways to get PCs for very cheap, sometimes even free, that wouldn't necessarily apply to software. Like AW86, you've clearly led a life of relative privilege, and it's simply unfair of you to judge others by your standard of living. I, for one, have only bought one computer in my entire life yet I've had at least a dozen. Why is it, then, that my having a PC necessarily means that I can afford software?

I'll say this again - just because in YOUR life things have worked out a given way does not mean that your life is an appropriate model for the lives of others. Millions of people have computers they didn't pay for, actually, and your assumption that everyone who has one pays for one is laughably narrow-minded.

ah BLAMMING your life now huh.  grow up.  There are 100's of games I would have loved to play, but never got to because I can't afford to buy them all.  If I really wanted to play the game, say a new zelda comes out.  I will want to play that 1000%. there will be nothing stopping me from playing it.  I will figure out a way to get money, if I need to get a job at somewhere I woudl ahte like a convenient store or fast food or something.  If I coudlnt' then i would wait and ask for on birthday or christmas, if they didn't get me it I woudl still find a way.   Hell could even go and donate plasma a couple times a week for 40 dolars or something.  there are ways of getting money if you look.   I mean hell how many hours you spend wasting searching forums or posting on here about games.  you could spend that time looking for a way to make money or just working more hours at your current job.

 

No matter how poor I have gotten adn trust me I have been in negative for months till i got out, that just means I have to wait till i can get that game.  Hell I could even resort to borrowing from a friend or renting for a week from blockbuster or something.  Just because I'm struggling for a while doesn't GIVE ME THE RIGHT to steal. 

 

You aren't going out stealling food for yourself or family, or sleeping on the street because you can't pay rent or mortgage.  You figured out and cut back expenses in order to pay for those things.  NOw if you want a video game and are low on funds you have to cut back on other things to afford it.  Whether that means not buying a case of beer the next time you were going to or not going out to eat for a while.  That's part of life.  I dont' want to hear no Democratic shit and blame society and expect someone else to do it for you.  If you want something you have to work for it. 

 

Hell if you look at my games list, I have played a lot of games for current systems and yet I only own a Wii.  I have found a way to play and finish the other games for other systems if I really wanted to play that game.  And why I don't own the other two systems is because I can't afford to. 

Blaming?  Not in the least.  I too live a relatively priveleged life.  The thing is that I have perspective, and you don't.  I can afford to buy most of the things I want, but I'm sympathetic to the plight of those who simply can't.  You think being in the negatives for a few months is poor?  THAT is relative privelege.  The vast majority of people who pirate aren't allowed to go into the negatives.  If they run out of money, they just starve.  The idea of credit is foreign to them, and the fact that it isn't to us proves that we have so much more than the average pirate it is emberrasing.

Really, your whole argument is childish and baseless.  Every word of it drips of ignorant luxury, and shows you simply don't understand how good we've got it and how bad the REAL average person has it.  If anyone needs to grow up, it's you.

yes i know i live a privilaged life.  i'm not the poor upbringing that has parents working 2 jobs each or whatever else you want to bring up for example of having it rough.

 

but pirating/stealing is never the solution.  if you have to resort to stealing something you shoudlnt' have it.  pirating is never acceptable.  there was a girl who was homeless that worked hard in school got straight A's and got a full ride to harvard.  so if a girl that has no parents, no home can figure out how to get perfect grades and get into one of the best college's in the world then no one has an excuse that they can't afford a game.  they aren't trying, they are lazy cheap crooks.

 

i want to get a hdtv real bad and wanted one for a long time.  my tv is a 27" sd tv i bought with my own money i saved up 8 years ago.  I have had plenty of times I could have afforded to buy a hdtv that many on this brag about and would have been fine money wise.  i coudl have taken out a bigger loan for that year in college, or done a monthly slow plan, or used my credit card or even gotten a new credit card.  But I don't like to have a lot of loans or pay something monthly cause i iknow it will cost like triple the original cost by the time i pay for it.  So here I am still so many years later with the same ol TV. 

 

Now i don't want to hear shit about people who have expensive tv's, consoles, computers, ect saying they can't afford something.  they managed to get that with their money somehow, they can figure out how to get money to buy a game.  If you got your computer by making with free parts, or even bartering with someone you are smart enough to figure out how to get your hands on a much cheaper piece of software.  The majority of pirates are not the people that are these super poor, helpless, worst situation in the world people.  they aren't playing games, they have other things in life more pressing to worry about than finding out how to get COD6 so they can play online.  THe pirates are the peopel who know the in's and ends of computers and have pirated hundreds of games and are doing it because they are digital crooks.  they think they won't get in trouble and they aren't stealing from no one. 



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ChichiriMuyo said:
irstupid said:
Twistedpixel said:
ChichiriMuyo said:

AnthonyW86 - If those people couldn't afford to buy the game then it didn't impact sales. You're assuming those people could have actually bought the game which is a huge mistake. Even assuming they had the money, it's a mistake. One in four people in the Western industrialized world (which already only makes a tiny fraction of the whole pirating pie)

Yep and if they can afford a pc to play advanced 3D games they can afford to pay for the games. But you can't pirate hardware, which is why they can 'afford' the PC but not the games.

yea thats a moronic excuse.  if you have a computer that can play these games you can afford a game.  hell there is never and excuse to pirate a game.  they are just cheap crooks, who think digital media is fine to steal. 

 

some say that they woudlnt' buy the game in the first place anyway, or just like to demo it first before buying to see if good.  Ha.  Can I go to the movie theater and get into a movie for free if I tell them that I didn't really want to see this movie, I just have free time and you have open seats.  I'm not hurting anybody now am I.  Or tell them I want to see the movie first before I decide if I want to buy the movie when it comes out. 

 

There is no excuse to pirate, not even if the game isn't brought to your country, or whatever reason you feel you have the right to pirate a game.  You can always find a way to buy a legit copy through the internet.  And if you are able to pirate that means you have an internet connection. 

I have a dual core laptop with over 2 gigs of ram and can play most games on it.  I got it for free.  Really, any kid with a half-assed understanding of computers can "fix" a PC that the computer illiterate would throw out for being "broken." 

Does my having a free, but relatively powerful, PC mean as a certainly that I can buy PC games?  No.  You are yet another person leading a relatively priveleged life if you think that it's perfectly natural to pay for everything out of your own pockets (or mommy's and daddy's, for some people).  For a very large portion of the population, especially in the "3rd world" countries, bartering plays a major role in daily life and most things are traded for.

i'm sure those 3rd world countries are just trying as hard as they can to play these high end graphics games in whatever means possible.  And you are smart enough to fix up that pc, yet you can't manage your money well enough to figure out how to buy a $50 game at most (no pc games are more than 50) 

I dont' know what you consider a good amount of games to buy in a year.  I at most buy 5 gmaes a year because it just gets to spendy thinking of spendin over a 300 a year on games.  Could I if i wanted buy 30+ games in a year, yea sure I could.  But then yes I would seriously be starting to get into trouble. I woudl ahve to ask my parents for rent money, grocery money, gas money, need to work more hours during the school year and would have to cut back on going out on the weekends to like nothing.  THen maybe i would see the awesomeness of the online community, because I would basically be stuck inside all the time cause no money and would only be able to hang out with online friends. 

 

So if your thinking that you need to have some 30+ games a year or even more than 10 and your bitching about not having money, that is your own problem and is not any right to start pirating.  You have to give and take, if you want more games you have to give up something else, if you can't give up something then you have to give up on buying those games, you can't just steal them.



"Bleh" is about the only word I can fathom at the thought of this.



The fact that you bring up families where both parents work as an example of "having it rough" once again shows how ignorant of the real world you are. Most people in this world are lucky if they can take care of a family on JUST two salaries. In the countries where piracy is really rampant you're lucky if you make it past ten years old before you get your first full-time job. You and I are so ridiculously spoiled compared to the people in a place like Zimbabwe (where software piracy exceeds 90%), and the fact that you keep acting as if everyone in the world is even remotely close to your standard of living is just shameful.

Having no parents and no home is a lot less of a detractor from going to a top-ranked university than living in a country where there are no credible universities at all. That girl was far more privileged than the average pirate because the opportunities existed for her in the first place. Most people in third world countries don't ever get the opportunities that Americans get, plain and simple. You can set up all the hoops in the world to try and show how AMERICANS or citizens of equally wealthy nations can make it happen, but it speaks no truth to the reality that the majority of the world's population lives in.

There are no Harvards in Africa or South America, there aren't even jobs in a lot of these places, and you're going to tell me that all they have to do is work hard and opportunity is going to cross the ocean to go find them in a place where opportunities don't otherwise exist? Give me a break, man. Open your eyes to the world. Stop acting as if reality stops at the boarder and that the experiences of people outside of the US and Europe don't count.

Seriously, I will give you the money to go live in an African nation just so you can understand what I'm talking about. Make arrangements, provide proof that you are really doing it, and I will start feeding you funds. Because I'm telling you now, it will open your eyes. You will never be able to look at your current life experiences again. You will, if you're a religious person, probably thank god every minute of every day for the "rough" life you had in a wealthy nation.

And the funny thing is, a lot of people in this world live in those conditions and still manage to get a PC. For many it is literally the one luxury they have. You'd be shocked at how prolific a technology it is. But not nearly as shocked as you would be at how people actually live in this world.

Again, you are massively privileged. Those 5 games you buy a year would cost the average Venezuelan something like 1/4th of their annual salary. The average American barely even spends 1/4th of their earnings on food, an absolute necessity, and to say that someone should pay the same fraction of their living wages (if they are living wages) to have a tiny fraction of the privilege you get is disgusting. Why should a poor person, a truly poor person, be held to the same standards as the wealthy when letting them off the hook doesn't hurt anybody at all? No company is going out of business because of the fact that 90% of piracy used in Armenia is pirated, after all, so why attack the Armenians who pirate?

Piracy is very, very small in the US compared to these other countries, so all the effort Ubisoft is putting into this isn't even going to affect you and me. On top of that, a lot of hacking occurs in the US so the ones who do pirate will get their goods without issue. But to people who live in abject poverty, it is a big deal and there is no way around it. Georgians don't get to skip lunch for a week in order to pay for a game because they'd never get the money in time. They'd have to skip lunch for months IF they could buy it at the price we get it for, only there's that fact that they actually pay more than we do.

Seriously, get to learn about our world someday. If you knew the reality that most people outside of the Western world face, you wouldn't be here making such narrow-minded arguments.

 

Edit: Oh, I don't have any idea what a good number of games to buy in a year is.  I might buy about as many as you.  Frankly, I was playing Dragon Quest Monsters Joker earlier today just minutes before I read the announcement for the sequel.  When I find a game I truly like, that game can last me years.  But we are talking about people that would have to save up for a year just to get a single game from a legitmate retail source, which is where most pirates fall on the economic spectrum, so it's really irrelevant what I think a "good amount" is.



You do not have the right to never be offended.

ChichiriMuyo said:

The fact that you bring up families where both parents work as an example of "having it rough" once again shows how ignorant of the real world you are. Most people in this world are lucky if they can take care of a family on JUST two salaries. In the countries where piracy is really rampant you're lucky if you make it past ten years old before you get your first full-time job. You and I are so ridiculously spoiled compared to the people in a place like Zimbabwe (where software piracy exceeds 90%), and the fact that you keep acting as if everyone in the world is even remotely close to your standard of living is just shameful.

Having no parents and no home is a lot less of a detractor from going to a top-ranked university than living in a country where there are no Universities at all. That girl was far more privileged than the average pirate because the opportunities existed for her in the first place. Most people in third world countries don't ever get the opportunities that Americans get, plain and simple. You can set up all the hoops in the world to try and show how AMERICANS or citizens of equally wealthy nations can make it happen, but it speaks no truth to the reality that the majority of the world's population lives in.

There are no Harvards in Africa or South America, there aren't even jobs in a lot of these places, and you're going to tell me that all they have to do is work hard and opportunity is going to cross the ocean to go find them in a place where opportunities don't otherwise exist? Give me a break, man. Open your eyes to the world. Stop acting as if reality stops at the boarder and that the experiences of people outside of the US and Europe don't count.

Seriously, I will give you the money to go live in an African nation just so you can understand what I'm talking about. Make arrangements, provide proof that you are really doing it, and I will start feeding you funds. Because I'm telling you now, it will open your eyes. You will never be able to look at your current life experiences again. You will, if you're a religious person, probably thank god every minute of every day for the "rough" life you had in a wealthy nation.

And the funny thing is, a lot of people in this world live in those conditions and still manage to get a PC. For many it is literally the one luxury they have. You'd be shocked at how prolific a technology it is. But not nearly as shocked as you would be at how people actually live in this world.

Again, you are massively privileged. Those 5 games you buy a year would cost the average Venezuelan something like 1/4th of their annual salary. The average American barely even spends 1/4th of their earnings on food, an absolute necessity, and to say that someone should pay the same fraction of their living wages (if they are living wages) to have a tiny fraction of the privilege you get is disgusting. Why should a poor person, a truly poor person, be held to the same standards as the wealthy when letting them off the hook doesn't hurt anybody at all? No company is going out of business because of the fact that 90% of piracy used in Armenia is pirated, after all, so why attack the Armenians who pirate?

Piracy is very, very small in the US compared to these other countries, so all the effort Ubisoft is putting into this isn't even going to affect you and me. On top of that, a lot of hacking occurs in the US so the ones who do pirate will get their goods without issue. But to people who live in abject poverty, it is a big deal and there is no way around it. Georgians don't get to skip lunch for a week in order to pay for a game because they'd never get the money in time. They'd have to skip lunch for months IF they could buy it at the price we get it for, only there's that fact that they actually pay more than we do.

Seriously, get to learn about our world someday. If you knew the reality that most people outside of the Western world face, you wouldn't be here making such narrow-minded arguments.

 

Edit: Oh, I don't have any idea what a good number of games to buy in a year is.  I might buy about as many as you.  Frankly, I was playing Dragon Quest Monsters Joker earlier today just minutes before I read the announcement for the sequel.  When I find a game I truly like, that game can last me years.  But we are talking about people that would have to save up for a year just to get a single game from a legitmate retail source, which is where most pirates fall on the economic spectrum, so it's really irrelevant what I think a "good amount" is.

ha hilarious.  i already said if its something like that then they shoudl be worrying about other things than finding out a way to pirate a game to play for entertainment.  If they have it soo damn tough and 5 games is like a insane christmas bonus to them (as you see in movies) then why not take their computer that they have and sell it for money.  and they most likely don't have a tv and conosle and pirating games.  These examples you bring up are rediculous.

 

MOST pirates are people like you and me that just go to the torrent sites when a new game is cmoing out and download and play because they are crooks. they are not the people you are describing.  And where are these people getting their computers and then an internet connection that allows them to download 9+ gigs worth of data in these places that don't even have schools or jobs. 

 

I know i'm privolaged as an american, but i and all my family would bitch slap myself if i was in their situation and was worrying about how to get these games to be able to play.  they have much more to worry about as you said.  And please I would love to see your example of these HORRID places and see a picture of a guy sitting for hours at would most likely have ot be a public place that gives free wifi and waiting for a 9+ gig download iwth their fancy computer.



Miguel_Zorro said:

You guys seriously either a) Don't know what you're talking about or b) Are just being silly.  You make it sound as if the people committing software piracy in poor nations is representative of the general population there.  The guys making $5 a day isn't the same as the guy with the high powered gaming PC pirating the latest Call of Duty game.  Give your head a shake.

Furthermore, if you're going to make the claim that "Piracy doesn't harm software sales" it's not our job to do the f*cking google search and other research to prove it for you.  Provide some evidence to back it up.

thats what i'm saying.  i'm saying he is being retarded by bring up these super poor people in africa or wherever that are making basically nothing.  they aren't pirating games to play call of duty 6.  hell if i look at all my so called gifted friends that have sooo much money and should be thanking god every waking moment, there are only 3-4 of them that even have a computer that is able to play call of duty 6 any good.

 

these what was it 3 million or something pirated copies of cod6 on pc are all b poeple that can easily afford to buy the game.  some of those 3 million yes indeed bought the game later.  but anyone who says pirating is good is stupid.  there are way more that would have bought the game but pirate it instead than there are that pirate the game to just TRY IT and then later buy it. 

 

anyone on this site that pirates is a crook.  if you ahve time to sit around and argue with other nerds about game sales and other fanboy things then you can find ways to afford a game.