I'm getting really sick of this idiot. How can you be this clueless about gaming, and have a job analyzing them? The guy is always wrong, unless he says something everybody knows is going to happen. Completely useless.
| milkyjoe said: On the point about hardcore/advertising... Any game on any system will only go so far with the sole attention of hardcore gamers. We are not the centre of the gaming universe, the mainstream/casuals are. The hardcore is niche by definition. The big sellers on PS3/360 are the likes of Call of Duty, GTA and Halo. These are games that have hardcore appeal, but by definition, they are mainstream games. It is only recently that casual gaming has seemed to mean tacky mini game compilations. The truth is, casual gamers have been playing the likes of GTA, FIFA, NFS, etc etc on supposed hardcore systems for years. Meanwhile, the true hardcore games on these systems, the ones with little to no mainstream appeal, have struggled to reach 5million sales worldwide. Then on Wii you have games like Smash Bros Brawl and Mario Kart which are exactly the same as those mentioned above. They were released to please the hardcore, but at the same time, they attracted mainstream interest. The thing is, Nintendo are the only company that have managed to do this with major success on Wii so far. We can argue the reasons back and forth until our fingers bleed from typing, but it doesn't change the fact that it hasn't happened. I would ask though, what games are there on Wii that are as good or better than those two above, that have mainstream and hardcore appeal, and that were developed by a third party? I suspect the list would be short. |
de Blob is worthy.
“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.
| txrattlesnake said:
There hasn't been a similar pattern to this on any console in a long time (PS2 had plenty of big sellers like this). You don't see top rated games on 360 or PS3 being behind 7s, low 8s, and 5s in sales. |
Bullshit. Not only are reviews heavily in favor of these styles of games anyway(naturally inclined to rate higher) but anything on Wii in general will lose marks purely for being on the Wii.
“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.
| txrattlesnake said: Why should people think about what the actual customers think when most Wii customers aren't what would be called traditional gamers? How can and why should the average mother that buys a Wii for the family, Wii Fit for herself, and Mario Wii for the kids for Christmas be trusted to assess the quality of games like No More Heroes, Final Fantasy XIII, Uncharted 2, Fallout 3, GTA IV, or Muramasa over the opinion of respected videogame critics some of whom have been reviewing games for over 20 years? And why should this new market in gaming be allowed to alter the trends in gaming to such a large degree that the store shelves are flooded by Wii Fit and Wii Sports clones while studios like Marvelous that have actually been trying to make good games on Wii sell fewer than a million copies on a platform with an install base of 60 million customers? Additionally, I feel most longtime Nintendo fans like the ones you run into on boards defending many of these expanded audience type games as the best games ever don't really care how the expanded audience affects the market as long as they can get a Mario or Zelda game every once in awhile and will defend these expanded audience games many of which they wouldn't have wanted in past gens simply because they have put Nintendo back on top of the console market for the first time in two generations. |
It's just like you said: why should men who know nothing about fitness, dancing or fashion review games dealing with it when they don't care for any of these genres? Does their experience in playing first person shooters and adventure games for the last 20 years make them more qualified than, say, girls newer to videogames that do care about this stuff?
As for the "average mother," she would not play games like No More Heroes, FFXIII, or Uncharted 2, and hence does not care to review them, so why even ask this question?
The stores being flooded by Wii Fit or Wii Sports clones is a common occurrence. It happens with every breakthrough success - Mario, Street Fighter, GTA, Halo, you name it. It doesn't take long for this to quickly die down (it already has, see here), though it has persisted on the Wii longer than most, primarily because Nintendo is the only one making quality games of this type. They're the only ones making great games for girls, children, and families, hence the large demand.
Bringing up a niche publisher like Marvelous and expecting their games to sell millions of copies is a joke, and has absolutely nothing to do with the Wii, and everything to do with their games. I suggest looking at how they performed on Sony's systems before pretending you have a point here.
I do defend expanded audience games, though I never said I liked them all myself. I merely think that people have the right to enjoy the games they please, without being called retards. I also think reviewers are out of touch with the gamers, made obvious when looking at some of their Wii reviews. Things have gotten so crazy that a great old school 2D Mario game is now considered a "casual" game, seriously... it seems as if these people have a desire to control the entire industry.
Reviewers seem to think there are no great games which "normal" people can enjoy. I disagree with their values.
| txrattlesnake said:
It doesn't have anything to do with their games as their games have received some of the best reviews of any publisher's on Wii. And that is just the thing, with the lack of the big third party games on Wii like GTA, etc, then the audience of 60 million Wii owners should be picking up the games from a publisher like Marvelous as they have had less competition against their games as on the Wii than PS2, for example, where their games would have been pitted against more established franchises in similar genres, thus cutting into their sales, but they haven't found better success with the relative lack of competition.
|
You seem to think that review scores matter towards sales, which is not true...
According to metacritic the top 10 reviewed movies of 2009 were The Hurt Locker, 35 Shots of Rum, Still Walking, Goodbye Solo, Tulpan, Up, Gomorah, The Beaches of Agnes, Ponyo, and An Education; of those the only movie that made it into the top 50 highest grossing movies of 2009 according to Box Office Mojo was Up.
To make matters worse, movies like Transformers Revenge of the Fallen and Twilight: New Moon made more money than all those movies even though they were very poorly reviewed.
Regardless of format (books, movies, television, music and videogames) reviewers tend to favour qualities in a product that are not necessarily related to how a product will resonate with the consumer. With videogames, as the market expands beyond a vary narrow demographic and reviewers become more pretentious the more videogames that are "Low Quality" will lead sales in a given year.
megaman79 said:
Bullshit. Not only are reviews heavily in favor of these styles of games anyway(naturally inclined to rate higher) but anything on Wii in general will lose marks purely for being on the Wii.
|
No doubt about it. Frsh off the block, is GTs NMH 2 review. Nothing but good things to say, yet this brilliant game gets an 8.2 score ... what? It's like they score the game, and then subtract a point for it being on the Wii. It's pathetic.
| txrattlesnake said:
It doesn't have anything to do with their games as their games have received some of the best reviews of any publisher's on Wii. And that is just the thing, with the lack of the big third party games on Wii like GTA, etc, then the audience of 60 million Wii owners should be picking up the games from a publisher like Marvelous as they have had less competition against their games as on the Wii than PS2, for example, where their games would have been pitted against more established franchises in similar genres, thus cutting into their sales, but they haven't found better success with the relative lack of competition.
|
Niche is niche.
If Marvelous games didn't sell well because they were weird, then any new audience might see them just as weird as the core gamers do.
If Marvelous games didn't sell well because of competition with bigger, better games, then they are still competing against those games, even if they are on another platform; the gamers who prefer those games would just buy the console that has those games, and continue to ignore Marvelous.
Veder Juda is hand crafted from EPIC FAIL, and is a 96% certified Looney; the other 4% is a work in progress.
RE4 wii out sold RE4 gc, so the target demographic is here, developers are just pain lazy, there IS NO DAMN CODE TO CRACK!!
1) MAKE AAA GAME ON WII
2) ADVERTISE AAA WII GAME LIKE IT'S A HD AAA GAME
3) PROFIT
THAT'S IT, THAT'S IT, THAT'S IT, THAT'S IT, THAT'S IT, THAT'S IT NOW IF PUBLISHERS AND DEVELOPERS DON'T GET IT THAN THEY DON'T NEED TO BE MAKING WII GAMES PERIOD!
At what point is somebody going to try this?!! Every week it's the same damn thing and every week we say the same damn thing and nobody, NOBODY, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBODY listens!
Wii the BEST selling console this gen and the FASTEST selling console ever and gets the worst games ever! Third Parties don't even care or try but they get mad when we don't care?
IF RE:DSC sold +1M what do you think we'd get........EVEN MORE RE: ON-RAIL ACTION
IF DS:E solded lights out EA would happily announce DS: ON-RAILS FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY
I'm Sorry this thread is making my blood pressure of though the roof, I'm out!
Gaming make me feel GOOD!
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