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Forums - General Discussion - 10 Greatest Figures in the History of the World - Your Picks?

Kasz216 said:
tarheel91 said:
Mr Khan said:

Yay! Someone else who knows that Columbus was really looking for Cathay, or Mongolia.

 

1. Jesus. No other individual is still so directly involved in people's lives, considering that about 1/3 of people on earth at least claim to be Christian.
2. Gutenberg. The foundation of the modern world is knowledge through literature, which we would have without him.
3. Edison. He created the demand for electricity with his introduction of consumer goods that used it (lightbulb), and the electrical delivery systems.
4. Mohammed. Same thing as Jesus, just with fewer people.
5. King John and the Chartists: they laid the foundation for constitutional government in England, which would become the foundation for the rule of law pretty much around the world.
6. Ghengis Khan. His empire brought together the great civilizations of the world at the time (East Asia, Middle East, Europe), and the exchange of information created much of the world, and his legacy changed the course of world history entirely.
7. Columbus. Because putting two continents on the map is kinda hard to replicate
8. John Smith. He created capitalism, which has endured as an economic system to this day
9. Marx. His ideas did kind of burn out, but still changed the world remarkably. The 20th century pretty much turned on his ideas.
10. Cardinal Richileu. At the end of the 30-years-war, he helped craft what is the modern notion of the sovereign state that endures to this day

Gutenburg only invented the printing press in the west.  The earliest printed book was found in China, a copy of the Diamond Sutra.  It was printed in 868.

 

Choosing ten people is pretty difficult.  Most of these lists are incredibly Western.  Even if you only look at Western history, 10 is still pretty hard.

I'd definitely include Jesus.  Newton would be there as the foundation of modern physics (and calculus).  I'd probably include Martin Luther (where is he in y'all's lists!?), too.  In terms of the East, I'd look at Confucius, Mao Zedong, and Laozi.  I really don't know who I'd pick to fill the other six spots.  We were tasked with picking the 25 most influential people in Western history since 1400 in my AP European History class last year, and that was difficult enough.

To be fair, lists probably should be westerncentric... considering the general western dominance of the world.

 

The Karl Marx stuff I don't get though.  Had Karl Marx so the world of today, chances are he'd of never written the Communist manifesto in the first place.

The stuff that goes on in the world today in capitalist countries is of the like he'd never expect to see.  In such a world it's unlikely he'd think the strong steps he suggested there were worth going through on.

 

While today's world is certainly dominated by the West, a lot of the world's most important inventions and progressions came from the East.

The printing press, the compass, anatomy, most modern types of bridges, crop rotation, gun powder, paper were all invented in China.

"Pascal's" triangle and Pi were created or measured first in China.

These are just a very small portion of the achievements of China alone.  For more, check out the eleventy seven volumes of Science and Civilization in China.  While the individual inventors wouldn't show up on my list, the people who created a society and system of beliefs responsible for such progression of civilization certainly deserve to be recognized (i.e. Confucius and Laozi).  Hell, they deserve to be recognized for creating a civilization capable of maintaining control of such a massive area for such a long period of time alone.

Edit: I'm sure you recognize this, but the only reason history seems so Western-centric is that we are Westerners.  Of course we're going to focus on our history more.



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Lets see. Creating a unified list would be really hard, so I am doing a top 10 for military/political and science/economics:

1. Jesus. A non-militaristic man that greatly influenced morality and actions for 2 thousand years. Greatly effected the Roman empire post-Constantine and still has major influence on the lives and actions of people today, despite being persecuted and murdered.

2. Mohammed. Similar to Jesus, has left a huge impact on society. Unlike Jesus, he was militaristic and changed the Arabian landscape as well.

3. Sun Tzu. The greatest military mind in history. Bar none.

4. Genghis Khan. He and his progeny ruled most of the known world for quite some time.

5. Karl Marx. His ideals influenced a great deal of 20th century atrocities.

6. George Washington. A great military/statesman.

7. Caesar Augustus. Could be higher on the list, but he was the first emperor of the Roman Empire.

8. Alexander the Great. Leader of the Greek empire which was one of the major empires of antiquity.

9. Ghandi. His ideals and values effected a great deal of 20th century culture and history, especially India.

10. Hitler. When your responsible for the deaths of tens if not hundreds of millions of people, and formed so much 20th century history, your on the list.


Scientists/Economists/Thinkers/Inventors:

1. Johannes Gutenberg - inventor of the printing press. Yes, there are earlier machines, but his was the first to catch on and become incredibly common.
2. Aristotle. Teacher of Alexander the great, and a founder of many concepts we use and enjoy today. Really is tied for #1.
3. Adam Smith. Refuted Merchantilism and founded modern economics and capitalism. Has contributed much for the past 3 centuries. Man, I gotta read more on Wealth of Nations.
4. Galileo. Supporter of Copernicus' heliocentric theory, better telescopes, and many astronomic observations. The founder of modern science.
5. Issac Newton. Gravity and three laws of motion.
6. Albert Einstein. Right there with Issac Newton as one of the greatest scientists in history.
7. Ben Franklin. Electricity.
8. Henry Ford. The assembly line.
9. Alan Turing. Founder of modern computer science.
10. Brett Walton, founder of VGChartz.com :-p



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

I find it interesting that so many people are putting Hitler on the list.

The only thing he will be remembered for, is being a crazy guy who killed a lot of people. If that's your measuring bar, there are a lot better people for that title.

In Genocide, Hitler killed 12 million people. Stalin killed 23 million, and Mao Zedong killed between 49 and 78 million people.

So I would replace Hitler with Mao on everyones list.



To be fair, though, Hitler led to a bigger war that led to a much bigger geopolitical crisis (Cold War). That is just as big, or a little bigger than Mao's purges.

Don't get me wrong, if we're going for mass-murderers, Mao takes the cake. However, he didn't start a war nearly the size of Hitler.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:
To be fair, though, Hitler led to a bigger war that led to a much bigger geopolitical crisis (Cold War). That is just as big, or a little bigger than Mao's purges.

Don't get me wrong, if we're going for mass-murderers, Mao takes the cake. However, he didn't start a war nearly the size of Hitler.

Yea, but war is war. One person can not fight a war. Once the war started, you then the deaths move to the shoulders of a lot more people.

For example, there were many ways Stalin could have fought Hitler. The method he used was the most deadly for his people. Those deaths fall on him.

I mean we could try and figure out who the first man was who used a stick as a weapon, and blame him for all the deaths in the world too :).

 



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Mao also reformed China, took the steps that are leading them to being a world superpower, and transformed warfare. But seriously, is this a list of greatest people, or most influential people? Because if it's either one, where's Beethoven or Mozart or Leonardo Da Vinci on most people's lists?

To quote Yoda:

"War does not make one great."

Culture can have a far greater effect on society than killers or reformers, in many more intricate ways. Something to consider.



 

 

Hitler gets on that list for more than the direct results of his actions. Hitler ended up shaping the modern world by starting a war which was lost to the allies which in turn caused the Cold War. He also gets bonus points for being the archetype of evil.



SciFiBoy said:
Chairman-Mao said:

what? no Mao for Mao?

lol I can't believe i omitted the guy who my profile is named after.



mrstickball said:
Lets see. Creating a unified list would be really hard, so I am doing a top 10 for military/political and science/economics:

1. Jesus. A non-militaristic man that greatly influenced morality and actions for 2 thousand years. Greatly effected the Roman empire post-Constantine and still has major influence on the lives and actions of people today, despite being persecuted and murdered.

2. Mohammed. Similar to Jesus, has left a huge impact on society. Unlike Jesus, he was militaristic and changed the Arabian landscape as well.

3. Sun Tzu. The greatest military mind in history. Bar none.

4. Genghis Khan. He and his progeny ruled most of the known world for quite some time.

5. Karl Marx. His ideals influenced a great deal of 20th century atrocities.

6. George Washington. A great military/statesman.

7. Caesar Augustus. Could be higher on the list, but he was the first emperor of the Roman Empire.

8. Alexander the Great. Leader of the Greek empire which was one of the major empires of antiquity.

9. Ghandi. His ideals and values effected a great deal of 20th century culture and history, especially India.

10. Hitler. When your responsible for the deaths of tens if not hundreds of millions of people, and formed so much 20th century history, your on the list.


Scientists/Economists/Thinkers/Inventors:

1. Johannes Gutenberg - inventor of the printing press. Yes, there are earlier machines, but his was the first to catch on and become incredibly common.
2. Aristotle. Teacher of Alexander the great, and a founder of many concepts we use and enjoy today. Really is tied for #1.
3. Adam Smith. Refuted Merchantilism and founded modern economics and capitalism. Has contributed much for the past 3 centuries. Man, I gotta read more on Wealth of Nations.
4. Galileo. Supporter of Copernicus' heliocentric theory, better telescopes, and many astronomic observations. The founder of modern science.
5. Issac Newton. Gravity and three laws of motion.
6. Albert Einstein. Right there with Issac Newton as one of the greatest scientists in history.
7. Ben Franklin. Electricity.
8. Henry Ford. The assembly line.
9. Alan Turing. Founder of modern computer science.
10. Brett Walton, founder of VGChartz.com :-p

Again, Gutenberg is only important from an exclusively Western perspective.  You claimed that it was he who made them popular, but they were already popular in China centuries before Gutenburg invented his version.  The first <i>dated</i> printed Chinese book was printed in the 800s, over 500 years before Gutenburg.



tarheel91 said:
Kasz216 said:
tarheel91 said:
Mr Khan said:

Yay! Someone else who knows that Columbus was really looking for Cathay, or Mongolia.

 

1. Jesus. No other individual is still so directly involved in people's lives, considering that about 1/3 of people on earth at least claim to be Christian.
2. Gutenberg. The foundation of the modern world is knowledge through literature, which we would have without him.
3. Edison. He created the demand for electricity with his introduction of consumer goods that used it (lightbulb), and the electrical delivery systems.
4. Mohammed. Same thing as Jesus, just with fewer people.
5. King John and the Chartists: they laid the foundation for constitutional government in England, which would become the foundation for the rule of law pretty much around the world.
6. Ghengis Khan. His empire brought together the great civilizations of the world at the time (East Asia, Middle East, Europe), and the exchange of information created much of the world, and his legacy changed the course of world history entirely.
7. Columbus. Because putting two continents on the map is kinda hard to replicate
8. John Smith. He created capitalism, which has endured as an economic system to this day
9. Marx. His ideas did kind of burn out, but still changed the world remarkably. The 20th century pretty much turned on his ideas.
10. Cardinal Richileu. At the end of the 30-years-war, he helped craft what is the modern notion of the sovereign state that endures to this day

Gutenburg only invented the printing press in the west.  The earliest printed book was found in China, a copy of the Diamond Sutra.  It was printed in 868.

 

Choosing ten people is pretty difficult.  Most of these lists are incredibly Western.  Even if you only look at Western history, 10 is still pretty hard.

I'd definitely include Jesus.  Newton would be there as the foundation of modern physics (and calculus).  I'd probably include Martin Luther (where is he in y'all's lists!?), too.  In terms of the East, I'd look at Confucius, Mao Zedong, and Laozi.  I really don't know who I'd pick to fill the other six spots.  We were tasked with picking the 25 most influential people in Western history since 1400 in my AP European History class last year, and that was difficult enough.

To be fair, lists probably should be westerncentric... considering the general western dominance of the world.

 

The Karl Marx stuff I don't get though.  Had Karl Marx so the world of today, chances are he'd of never written the Communist manifesto in the first place.

The stuff that goes on in the world today in capitalist countries is of the like he'd never expect to see.  In such a world it's unlikely he'd think the strong steps he suggested there were worth going through on.

 

While today's world is certainly dominated by the West, a lot of the world's most important inventions and progressions came from the East.

The printing press, the compass, anatomy, most modern types of bridges, crop rotation, gun powder, paper were all invented in China.

"Pascal's" triangle and Pi were created or measured first in China.

These are just a very small portion of the achievements of China alone.  For more, check out the eleventy seven volumes of Science and Civilization in China.  While the individual inventors wouldn't show up on my list, the people who created a society and system of beliefs responsible for such progression of civilization certainly deserve to be recognized (i.e. Confucius and Laozi).  Hell, they deserve to be recognized for creating a civilization capable of maintaining control of such a massive area for such a long period of time alone.

Edit: I'm sure you recognize this, but the only reason history seems so Western-centric is that we are Westerners.  Of course we're going to focus on our history more.

They were all invented in the east... but had to be "reinvented" in the west.  (most anyway.) 

Which is where they had the most application and spread to the most places.

In a way their "reinventions" were more important then their inventions... essentially the printed western world helped lead to western domination, while in the eastern world it didn't do as much.

Though I somewhat disagree on why history seems so Westerncentric.  Western domination of culture and proliferation I think a huge part as well.  I bet the rest of the world knows more about western culture then the average person here knows about their cultures because of this.