letsdance said: Lol you guys are hilarious. Before price cut? Everything points in Costs lowered > Price lowered. Nordlead - Your right. I'm still in WW mode as given by total units shipped. But Sony still lowered cost by billions this year WW. Grimes - So what? Costs of not manufacturing Ps2's and PSP + Lower costs of manufacturing the Ps3 + Raised SW sales + 1.3 billion already scattered through 3 of 4 quarters = good enough for me.

Apparently, you have no idea on how sales forecast and supply chain work.

The PS2s and PSPs were already manufactured based on Sony's forecast. Due to poor PS2 and PSP sales, those units are probably sitting in Sony's  warehouse right now. However, Sony already paid for those units to be made but cannot not sell them to retails. Hence, they may face a huge loss this quarter. We will see.

letsdance said: Lol you guys are hilarious. Before price cut? Everything points in Costs lowered > Price lowered. Nordlead - Your right. I'm still in WW mode as given by total units shipped. But Sony still lowered cost by billions this year WW. Grimes - So what? Costs of not manufacturing Ps2's and PSP + Lower costs of manufacturing the Ps3 + Raised SW sales + 1.3 billion already scattered through 3 of 4 quarters = good enough for me.

 

Not quite.

Loss of profits from PS2 and PSP hardware sales + Lower PS2 software sales + Lower PSP software sales+ Loss from PS3 hardware sales > Gain in PS3 software sales

Dark Chaos said: letsdance said: Lol you guys are hilarious. Before price cut? Everything points in Costs lowered > Price lowered. Nordlead - Your right. I'm still in WW mode as given by total units shipped. But Sony still lowered cost by billions this year WW. Grimes - So what? Costs of not manufacturing Ps2's and PSP + Lower costs of manufacturing the Ps3 + Raised SW sales + 1.3 billion already scattered through 3 of 4 quarters = good enough for me. So you are predicting a profit for Sony this quarter??

Its not out of the realm of possibility. They profited last year same quarter without major game division reorganizing, lowered Ps3 costs, and 4 major hitters

letsdance said: ...Are you really suggesting that Sony, a company scattering to find profitablilty in its gaming division, would lower costs more than costs saved at expense of market share while all through last year and this they have been a broken record about profitablitity and cutting cost as they are allowed to?

I don't appreciate their reasoning either, but yes, that is what all the evidence points to.

letsdance said: jarrod said: letsdance said: jarrod said: letsdance said: hkthui said: letsdance said: Id like to see those estimates.   Google search is your friend. First few links returned by searching "PS3 Slim Loss": Sony To Sell PS3 Slim At A Loss | Edge Online Hirai: PS3 Slim sold at a loss, but business profitable overall Sony Still Sells PlayStation 3 at a Loss – Analysis - X-bit labs Thanks... We already knew this... no where in there do I see up to a hundred dollars though. Closest we have is the CFO saying 10 percent... which is far from 100. Here's the link to the $100 loss estimate.  It's from Diawa Institute of Research and was reported on TV Tokyo before hitting trade papers.  And yeah, a basic google search would've led you there. I actually haven't seen any other specific estimates on the confirmed PS3 slim loss though.  I'm curious where you're getting your $30 from, can you give us a source? http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/15/report-sony-losing-about-40-on-each-ps3/ Sony's Chief Financial Officer. That figure isn't in reference to the $299 slim, it's in reference to the $399 fat.  Again, where are you getting a $30 loss on the slim from? ...Are you really suggesting that Sony, a company scattering to find profitablilty in its gaming division, would lower costs more than costs saved at expense of market share while all through last year and this they have been a broken record about profitablitity and cutting cost as they are allowed to?

Well, yes given that was their corporate strategy this year.  They planned to eat losses to drive marketshare company wide, and this wasn't limited to PlayStation 3.  SCE's also been beating the "profitability next year" line the past 3 years running... here's a hint, it's probably not happening.

Again, can I get a link for that $30 figure?

hkthui said: letsdance said: Lol you guys are hilarious. Before price cut? Everything points in Costs lowered > Price lowered. Nordlead - Your right. I'm still in WW mode as given by total units shipped. But Sony still lowered cost by billions this year WW. Grimes - So what? Costs of not manufacturing Ps2's and PSP + Lower costs of manufacturing the Ps3 + Raised SW sales + 1.3 billion already scattered through 3 of 4 quarters = good enough for me. Apparently, you have no idea on how sales forecast and supply chain work. The PS2s and PSPs were already manufactured based on Sony's forecast. Due to poor PS2 and PSP sales, those units are probably sitting in Sony's  warehouse right now. However, Sony already paid for those units to be made but cannot not sell them to retails. Hence, they may face a huge loss this quarter. We will see.

Forcasts? You mean the same forcasts that already suggested lowered Ps2 sales from years to come? Only leg you have to stand on is the PSP's

jarrod said: letsdance said: jarrod said: letsdance said: jarrod said: letsdance said: hkthui said: letsdance said: Id like to see those estimates.   Google search is your friend. First few links returned by searching "PS3 Slim Loss": Sony To Sell PS3 Slim At A Loss | Edge Online Hirai: PS3 Slim sold at a loss, but business profitable overall Sony Still Sells PlayStation 3 at a Loss – Analysis - X-bit labs Thanks... We already knew this... no where in there do I see up to a hundred dollars though. Closest we have is the CFO saying 10 percent... which is far from 100. Here's the link to the $100 loss estimate.  It's from Diawa Institute of Research and was reported on TV Tokyo before hitting trade papers.  And yeah, a basic google search would've led you there. I actually haven't seen any other specific estimates on the confirmed PS3 slim loss though.  I'm curious where you're getting your $30 from, can you give us a source? http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/15/report-sony-losing-about-40-on-each-ps3/ Sony's Chief Financial Officer. That figure isn't in reference to the $299 slim, it's in reference to the $399 fat.  Again, where are you getting a $30 loss on the slim from? ...Are you really suggesting that Sony, a company scattering to find profitablilty in its gaming division, would lower costs more than costs saved at expense of market share while all through last year and this they have been a broken record about profitablitity and cutting cost as they are allowed to? Well, yes given that was their corporate strategy this year.  They planned to eat losses to drive marketshare company wide, and this wasn't limited to PlayStation 3.  SCE's also been beating the "profitability next year" line the past 3 years running... here's a hint, it's probably not happening. Again, can I get a link for that $30 figure?

Kazuo Hirai, president and group chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment, told The Times at the inaugural Gamescom convention in Cologne: “We felt it was the right time to pass on the benefits of the fact that we’ve been able to reduce the number of components and their sizes. We wanted to pass the cost savings on to our consumers in the new price point.” Not exactly the 30 dollar figure but it suggests that they didn't reduce the price by 60 dollars more than the were able to save.

letsdance said: Dark Chaos said: letsdance said: Lol you guys are hilarious. Before price cut? Everything points in Costs lowered > Price lowered. Nordlead - Your right. I'm still in WW mode as given by total units shipped. But Sony still lowered cost by billions this year WW. Grimes - So what? Costs of not manufacturing Ps2's and PSP + Lower costs of manufacturing the Ps3 + Raised SW sales + 1.3 billion already scattered through 3 of 4 quarters = good enough for me. So you are predicting a profit for Sony this quarter?? Its not out of the realm of possibility. They profited last year same quarter without major game division reorganizing, lowered Ps3 costs, and 4 major hitters

PS2 and PSP were also both far stronger performers last year, and there's indications they were actually losing less on the $399-$499 fat than the $299-$349 slim (thanks to that link of yours).  

Is it outside the realm of possibility?  Well, nothing is really, but it's so laughably unlikely as to be borderline irrational.  Find a new angle.

Nobody is denying that they're reducing costs. What we're denying is that they cut costs so dramatically as to save $1.3B in costs relating to the sales in one region.

letsdance said: jarrod said: letsdance said: jarrod said: letsdance said: jarrod said: letsdance said: hkthui said: letsdance said: Id like to see those estimates.   Google search is your friend. First few links returned by searching "PS3 Slim Loss": Sony To Sell PS3 Slim At A Loss | Edge Online Hirai: PS3 Slim sold at a loss, but business profitable overall Sony Still Sells PlayStation 3 at a Loss – Analysis - X-bit labs Thanks... We already knew this... no where in there do I see up to a hundred dollars though. Closest we have is the CFO saying 10 percent... which is far from 100. Here's the link to the $100 loss estimate.  It's from Diawa Institute of Research and was reported on TV Tokyo before hitting trade papers.  And yeah, a basic google search would've led you there. I actually haven't seen any other specific estimates on the confirmed PS3 slim loss though.  I'm curious where you're getting your $30 from, can you give us a source? http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/15/report-sony-losing-about-40-on-each-ps3/ Sony's Chief Financial Officer. That figure isn't in reference to the $299 slim, it's in reference to the $399 fat.  Again, where are you getting a $30 loss on the slim from? ...Are you really suggesting that Sony, a company scattering to find profitablilty in its gaming division, would lower costs more than costs saved at expense of market share while all through last year and this they have been a broken record about profitablitity and cutting cost as they are allowed to? Well, yes given that was their corporate strategy this year.  They planned to eat losses to drive marketshare company wide, and this wasn't limited to PlayStation 3.  SCE's also been beating the "profitability next year" line the past 3 years running... here's a hint, it's probably not happening. Again, can I get a link for that $30 figure? Kazuo Hirai, president and group chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment, told The Times at the inaugural Gamescom convention in Cologne: “We felt it was the right time to pass on the benefits of the fact that we’ve been able to reduce the number of components and their sizes. We wanted to pass the cost savings on to our consumers in the new price point.”

Vague PR speak?  I don't see "$30" in there, do you?

Give me an analyst estimate, a teardown estimate, something that's at least substantial and specific.