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Forums - General Discussion - Obamas most despicable act to date.

NJ5 on 16 January 2010

I'm not American but even I can see that Obama is going against his important promises.

He promised transparency, stopping the wars and fighting lobbying and special interests. From everything I've seen he's doing the exact opposite on those promises.



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Blubeard on 16 January 2010

well, NJ5, he has a lot on his plate right now. He didn't exactly inherit the best situation from George w. The reason he hasn't been able to stop the wars and be more transparent is because there was no exit plan. George W is at fault for that and whatever the president does he will not be pleasing everybody.



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Kasz216 on 16 January 2010
NJ5 said:
I'm not American but even I can see that Obama is going against his important promises.

He promised transparency, stopping the wars and fighting lobbying and special interests. From everything I've seen he's doing the exact opposite on those promises.

Well he's keeping his promise on Iraq.

Of course his promise in Iraq really was what the status quo George Bush had already set up for leaving... it's just nobody really acknowledged it.



HappySqurriel on 16 January 2010
Blubeard said:
well, NJ5, he has a lot on his plate right now. He didn't exactly inherit the best situation from George w. The reason he hasn't been able to stop the wars and be more transparent is because there was no exit plan. George W is at fault for that and whatever the president does he will not be pleasing everybody.

Transparency is not difficult to achieve, it is just inconvenient when you are trying to do things that people disagree with in a way they don’t approve of.



Blubeard on 16 January 2010

Well I can't argue with that, happy squirrel. But the sad truth is that in any type of non-libertarian government, most people probably wouldn't want to know what is going on. If somebody were to spill the beans on the manhattan project, we would all be sitting on floor pillows and not playing nintendo.



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DaBuddahN on 16 January 2010
TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:
HappySqurriel said:

It would be impossible to attract people who could do these same jobs without offering them a similar or greater salary.

Then why are there doctors in France, Britain, and Sweden?  If you look at America, many of our professions pay much more than similar developed countries. 

Yeah, if you forced a pay cut on doctors they would go into some other high paying proffesion, so you would have to do a major overall and bring down many of overpaid salaries down at once.  Thats not possible under current conditions, but it doesnt mean it doesnt need to be done.

As for a doctor's education, the average doctor can expect to make $200,000 a year (keep in mind that family doctors make much less than specialists, and thus are pulling the average down).  As for your calculations, the only thing that makes becoming a doctor look less appealing is the cost of education, which is obviously high since many of their deans and teachers are making a ton of money (At my university, the president makes $800,000 a year and the dean of medicine makes over $500,000, not to mention numerous other deans and professors as well as a neurosurgeon doctor who make over a million a year).  As long as these people have these salaries education is going to be coslty, so all doctors will need to make a lot of money to pay them off, and thus charge patients a lot of money.

If your a doctor, one of the most lucrative fields to go into is Plastic Surgery. The cost of medical care in that field has gone down, while everything insurance companies cover has gone up. If the cost of the doctor was the issue, both fields would have grown in cost the same.

Hell, if you are a self employed truck driver in the US, you can make well over 100k. Averaging 200k as a doctor does not seem that high to me.

I'm sorry, but that is a bit of cherry picking there dude. Self-employed Truck drivers make a lot of money, also they put in a lot of hours. It's not a fair comparison in the very least. Sure, mentioning a truck drivers making that much money sounds amazing because you really don't have to have a strong education to be a truck driver. But let's be fair, and compare a doctor to something that requires a strong education, like engineering. The average engineer will make between 55 - 70k in the US, starting off. He might be able to work his way up to 80k in 4 to 5 years. 80k vs 200k... The difference is astounding. =/



Blubeard on 16 January 2010
DaBuddahN said:
TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:
HappySqurriel said:

It would be impossible to attract people who could do these same jobs without offering them a similar or greater salary.

Then why are there doctors in France, Britain, and Sweden?  If you look at America, many of our professions pay much more than similar developed countries. 

Yeah, if you forced a pay cut on doctors they would go into some other high paying proffesion, so you would have to do a major overall and bring down many of overpaid salaries down at once.  Thats not possible under current conditions, but it doesnt mean it doesnt need to be done.

As for a doctor's education, the average doctor can expect to make $200,000 a year (keep in mind that family doctors make much less than specialists, and thus are pulling the average down).  As for your calculations, the only thing that makes becoming a doctor look less appealing is the cost of education, which is obviously high since many of their deans and teachers are making a ton of money (At my university, the president makes $800,000 a year and the dean of medicine makes over $500,000, not to mention numerous other deans and professors as well as a neurosurgeon doctor who make over a million a year).  As long as these people have these salaries education is going to be coslty, so all doctors will need to make a lot of money to pay them off, and thus charge patients a lot of money.

If your a doctor, one of the most lucrative fields to go into is Plastic Surgery. The cost of medical care in that field has gone down, while everything insurance companies cover has gone up. If the cost of the doctor was the issue, both fields would have grown in cost the same.

Hell, if you are a self employed truck driver in the US, you can make well over 100k. Averaging 200k as a doctor does not seem that high to me.

I'm sorry, but that is a bit of cherry picking there dude. Self-employed Truck drivers make a lot of money, also they put in a lot of hours. It's not a fair comparison in the very least. Sure, mentioning a truck drivers making that much money sounds amazing because you really don't have to have a strong education to be a truck driver. But let's be fair, and compare a doctor to something that requires a strong education, like engineering. The average engineer will make between 55 - 70k in the US, starting off. He might be able to work his way up to 80k in 4 to 5 years. 80k vs 200k... The difference is astounding. =/

The main thing to remember here is that necessity generally determines salary. You probably aren't going to make a lot of money for standing outside in a chicken suit as an advertisment because people qualified for that job are in abundance. However if you are an auto mechanic that specializes in cars and parts that are no longer manufactured you generally will get paid more for being so far and few between.



My name is blubeard because rosie has a blue beard. Just not on her chest.

DaBuddahN on 16 January 2010
Blubeard said:
DaBuddahN said:
TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:
HappySqurriel said:

It would be impossible to attract people who could do these same jobs without offering them a similar or greater salary.

Then why are there doctors in France, Britain, and Sweden?  If you look at America, many of our professions pay much more than similar developed countries. 

Yeah, if you forced a pay cut on doctors they would go into some other high paying proffesion, so you would have to do a major overall and bring down many of overpaid salaries down at once.  Thats not possible under current conditions, but it doesnt mean it doesnt need to be done.

As for a doctor's education, the average doctor can expect to make $200,000 a year (keep in mind that family doctors make much less than specialists, and thus are pulling the average down).  As for your calculations, the only thing that makes becoming a doctor look less appealing is the cost of education, which is obviously high since many of their deans and teachers are making a ton of money (At my university, the president makes $800,000 a year and the dean of medicine makes over $500,000, not to mention numerous other deans and professors as well as a neurosurgeon doctor who make over a million a year).  As long as these people have these salaries education is going to be coslty, so all doctors will need to make a lot of money to pay them off, and thus charge patients a lot of money.

If your a doctor, one of the most lucrative fields to go into is Plastic Surgery. The cost of medical care in that field has gone down, while everything insurance companies cover has gone up. If the cost of the doctor was the issue, both fields would have grown in cost the same.

Hell, if you are a self employed truck driver in the US, you can make well over 100k. Averaging 200k as a doctor does not seem that high to me.

I'm sorry, but that is a bit of cherry picking there dude. Self-employed Truck drivers make a lot of money, also they put in a lot of hours. It's not a fair comparison in the very least. Sure, mentioning a truck drivers making that much money sounds amazing because you really don't have to have a strong education to be a truck driver. But let's be fair, and compare a doctor to something that requires a strong education, like engineering. The average engineer will make between 55 - 70k in the US, starting off. He might be able to work his way up to 80k in 4 to 5 years. 80k vs 200k... The difference is astounding. =/

The main thing to remember here is that necessity generally determines salary. You probably aren't going to make a lot of money for standing outside in a chicken suit as an advertisment because people qualified for that job are in abundance. However if you are an auto mechanic that specializes in cars and parts that are no longer manufactured you generally will get paid more for being so far and few between.

Oh, of course. No doubt about that. But my point is that there are many specialized jobs that don't get payment above 100k. The post I responded to makes it sound like 100k salaries are abundant. While, 100k salaries aren't unheard of, and with a really good education you can get one... They aren't as common as salaries below 100k, get my drift? Look at my example, a freakin' engineer doesn't make 100k unless he becomes a supervisor of some division or project. =/ Doctors make 200k because their education is long, they are needed, long hours, and taking care of others is risky business. Doctors are one of the most highly paid jobs on the market... Yet, somehow, their average salary is trying to be downplayed.



HappySqurriel on 16 January 2010
DaBuddahN said:

Oh, of course. No doubt about that. But my point is that there are many specialized jobs that don't get payment above 100k. The post I responded to makes it sound like 100k salaries are abundant. While, 100k salaries aren't unheard of, and with a really good education you can get one... They aren't as common as salaries below 100k, get my drift? Look at my example, a freakin' engineer doesn't make 100k unless he becomes a supervisor of some division or project. =/ Doctors make 200k because their education is long, they are needed, long hours, and taking care of others is risky business. Doctors are one of the most highly paid jobs on the market... Yet, somehow, their average salary is trying to be downplayed.

After you have 5 to 7 years experience as an engineer or software developer earning $100,000 or more per year is not difficult, but it requires being willing to take risks and responsibilities while achieving more consistent high quality results than most people are willing to. The “easiest” way to do this is to become an independent contractor, where you can easily get steady work while contracting out at between $50 and $75 per hour; and if you have a good reputation you can bill out at $150 to $200 per hour.



DaBuddahN on 17 January 2010
HappySqurriel said:
DaBuddahN said:

Oh, of course. No doubt about that. But my point is that there are many specialized jobs that don't get payment above 100k. The post I responded to makes it sound like 100k salaries are abundant. While, 100k salaries aren't unheard of, and with a really good education you can get one... They aren't as common as salaries below 100k, get my drift? Look at my example, a freakin' engineer doesn't make 100k unless he becomes a supervisor of some division or project. =/ Doctors make 200k because their education is long, they are needed, long hours, and taking care of others is risky business. Doctors are one of the most highly paid jobs on the market... Yet, somehow, their average salary is trying to be downplayed.

After you have 5 to 7 years experience as an engineer or software developer earning $100,000 or more per year is not difficult, but it requires being willing to take risks and responsibilities while achieving more consistent high quality results than most people are willing to. The “easiest” way to do this is to become an independent contractor, where you can easily get steady work while contracting out at between $50 and $75 per hour; and if you have a good reputation you can bill out at $150 to $200 per hour.

This is true. But the hours you must put in are long. But this isn't the point of what I was saying. The point was that it isn't as easy as people were making it out to be. Saying "a truck driver can make 100k" is misleading people into thinking high salaries are abundant, and that anyone can make them.