I still don’t understand why people fixate on the insurance companies as being the reason why American healthcare is so expensive. Life insurance, home insurance, auto insurance, and the countless forms of insurance that people and companies buy on a day to day basis is affordable with similar profit margins for the companies; and the primary difference between other insurance and healthcare insurance is how healthcare insurance is mandated to operate.

Imagine what would happen to auto insurance if it was (almost) always purchased in group plans with little or no consideration for the driving record of individuals, and it was mandated to cover the costs of oil-changes, tire-rotations, new tires and (basically) all general maintenance. Rather than being able to determine how good of a driver someone was you’d have to assume that they were a poor driver (and since they have less of an incentive to drive well you’d probably be correct), and with little to no personal cost to it people would choose to perform maintenance too often and would always choose the premium service, and the cost of auto insurance would go through the roof. If you added a public option to this system it won’t make costs any lower because people would still be getting ultra-sticky racing tires twice a year and driving dangerously because there is no cost associated with their behaviour.

If you want to make the system more affordable, have companies pay health benefits into an account where individuals can buy individual benefits on an exchange where companies are allowed to set rates based on people’s lifestyle; in this exchange the purchase of insurance (payout in the case of an unlikely event) and benefits would be treated separately, and individuals would be able to add personal money to their account to buy additional healthcare. What you would probably find in a system like this is that most companies (even tiny companies) would pay some money into healthcare accounts, and insurance covering most of the most costly unlikely health problems would be affordable; and people would have the choice of what benefits they paid for, and the deductible/co-pay associated with those benefits which would result in many very-affordable plans existing.

Don't forget the fact that health insurance is the only one that is expected to pay for virtually EVERYTHING.

For auto insurance, you do not expect your policy to pay for new tires, oil changes, or gasoline. But on a healthcare policy, you demand free regular checkups to the doctor.

For house insurance, you never demand to have the insurance company pay for a cabinet that needs replaced. But you demand that lab sample is covered.

And so on.

The problem is that healthcare insurance is designed more like a savings plan rather than.....Insurance. Acturarial math dictates that the cost of a policy is the aggregation of likely outcomes that you'll need the plan. Politicians, as well as some insurance holders think that isn't the case, yet that is how insurance works. When people demand far too much from insurance, the prices go up.

If people focused only on purchasing catastrophic HC plans - for cancer, for major hospital bills over $1,000 or more - you'd find that insurance really isn't that bad. But when you want them to pay for everything, then insurance is simply a savings account for your money which isn't smart.

Mega yawn. Backroom politics, happens all the time. Has always happened. Hell, railroad employees have never paid FICA taxes as far as I know. Obama was doomed before he even got elected. It's no doubt he's done, then we'll get Jeb Bush or Sarah Fucking Palin in office, we'll hang some gays, build more prisons, fight a war with Iran, and Mafoo will be doing a fucking jig in New Zealand.

kowenicki said: you really hate him dont you.... whereas from afar I just see the most over-rated human being of all time incapable of living up to the unfair and ridiculous hype and lacking in any really interesting and new ideas. he is boring.... already.

The people that disappoint me to no end, are the ones who put him in office. The ones to taken by his charm to realize we need someone who can fix this country, and not someone who just tells them what they want to hear.

I mean it's like everyone getting upset about the congressman from Nebraska who got millions of dollars for his state. I am not sure why everyone is upset with him. He did his job (work in the interest of the people he represents). The people you should be disappointed in, is every other congress member that agreed to it.

All his did (and all Obama did), was ask for something. The people in power (in Obama's case, the American people) had to give them what they asked for. Those are the ones am angry with.

There's no such thing as a blank page on VGChartz. There's a Star Trek promo at the top of the screen right now.:)

Maybe back in the mid to late 90's the Blue Dog Democrats were about Fiscal responsibility (Only beacuse Democrats weren't in power in Congress), but I don't remember too many of them being vocal about the cost of the shit-storm war we're in now. The only reason why they're vocal about healthcare reform is because they're bankrolled by the Healthcare Industry. I work in the Corporate Finance area of one of the largest healthcare companies in America and I see the uptick in political contributions and they are by and large towards Conservative/Republican leaning politicians.

The main thing he's done is start the dialog/trend of reform & trasparency. I definitely didn't expect him to accomplish much in his first or second year as our President considering the bitterness of the right wing fools who refuse to compromise and the cowardess of the left wing fools who can't figure out what they stand for. But like I said, at least he's making an effort. And I definitely don't believe that what he's proposing for our war situation is realistic since we can't just keep throwing soldiers out there to "stamp out terror," but I do agree that healthcare reform is needed if we want to get back on track economically. He proposed healthcare reform for a reason and admitted that it isn't a Cure-All, but that it was a big step in the right direction. He's making sure the bailiout money that he authorized to the banks is being paid back and that there will be steep penalties if they aren't.

I could go on, but I have to get back to work and make sure these donations are sent out. 

OBAMA 2012!!!

That is a very bad idea.  If you are reckless driver, its primarily your own fault for driving to fast and ignoring traffic laws.  If for whatever reason you cant afford car insurance, then you'll have to find other means of transportation which, though it may be an inconvienence, wont ruin your life.

Lets think about individual health, you could essentially afford health insurance until you need it.  If you are a healthy individual and to no fault of your own you experience a grave illness, then the insurance company drastically increases your price (because you are a risky investment now) and you cant afford insurance.  I cant imagine how horrible that would be where everyone that needed health insurance couldnt afford it, almost everyone would be one accident or illness away from financial ruin, not to mention the problem with retired seniors trying to buy health insurance.

TheRealMafoo said: kowenicki said: you really hate him dont you.... whereas from afar I just see the most over-rated human being of all time incapable of living up to the unfair and ridiculous hype and lacking in any really interesting and new ideas. he is boring.... already.   No, I don't hate him. I am very impressed with in actually. Here is a man with no real experience, and no skills to do the job he is elected to do. He wanted to be the most powerful man in the world, and he achieved it. That's very impressive. The people that disappoint me to no end, are the ones who put him in office. The ones to taken by his charm to realize we need someone who can fix this country, and not someone who just tells them what they want to hear. I mean it's like everyone getting upset about the congressman from Nebraska who got millions of dollars for his state. I am not sure why everyone is upset with him. He did his job (work in the interest of the people he represents). The people you should be disappointed in, is every other congress member that agreed to it. All his did (and all Obama did), was ask for something. The people in power (in Obama's case, the American people) had to give them what they asked for. Those are the ones am angry with.No, I don't hate him. I am very impressed with in actually. Here is a man with no real experience, and no skills to do the job he is elected to do. He wanted to be the most powerful man in the world, and he achieved it. That's very impressive The people that disappoint me to no end, are the ones who put him in office. The ones to taken by his charm to realize we need someone who can fix this country, and not someone who just tells them what they want to hear. I mean it's like everyone getting upset about the congressman from Nebraska who got millions of dollars for his state. I am not sure why everyone is upset with him. He did his job (work in the interest of the people he represents). The people you should be disappointed in, is every other congress member that agreed to it. All his did (and all Obama did), was ask for something. The people in power (in Obama's case, the American people) had to give them what they asked for. Those are the ones am angry with.

Ben Nelson wasn't exactly working for the interests of his state though (a state I live in). 

The healthcare bill is wildly unpopular here and he went from being a 30point favorite in the polls before voting for the bill to a 30 point underdog to Governor Heineman afterwards. 

In fact in a recent news story here locally he supposedly had to leave a restaurant because of other customers disgruntled by his mere presence. Allegedly people were shouting "Get him the hell out of here!".

The idea of "the interests of your state" isn't just bringing $$$ into the state, it's doing so without forsaking things your constiuents care about.  And in Nebraska, on the whole, we care quite a bit about this awful healthcare bill being stopped.

So no, Ben Nelson wasn't doing his job for Nebraskans, he was being a party politician and he got the bribe he did so he could hide behind it here locally.  The problem was they have severely underestimated how strongly those who oppose the bill truly oppose it.

Sqrl said: TheRealMafoo said: kowenicki said: you really hate him dont you.... whereas from afar I just see the most over-rated human being of all time incapable of living up to the unfair and ridiculous hype and lacking in any really interesting and new ideas. he is boring.... already.   No, I don't hate him. I am very impressed with in actually. Here is a man with no real experience, and no skills to do the job he is elected to do. He wanted to be the most powerful man in the world, and he achieved it. That's very impressive. The people that disappoint me to no end, are the ones who put him in office. The ones to taken by his charm to realize we need someone who can fix this country, and not someone who just tells them what they want to hear. I mean it's like everyone getting upset about the congressman from Nebraska who got millions of dollars for his state. I am not sure why everyone is upset with him. He did his job (work in the interest of the people he represents). The people you should be disappointed in, is every other congress member that agreed to it. All his did (and all Obama did), was ask for something. The people in power (in Obama's case, the American people) had to give them what they asked for. Those are the ones am angry with.No, I don't hate him. I am very impressed with in actually. Here is a man with no real experience, and no skills to do the job he is elected to do. He wanted to be the most powerful man in the world, and he achieved it. That's very impressive The people that disappoint me to no end, are the ones who put him in office. The ones to taken by his charm to realize we need someone who can fix this country, and not someone who just tells them what they want to hear. I mean it's like everyone getting upset about the congressman from Nebraska who got millions of dollars for his state. I am not sure why everyone is upset with him. He did his job (work in the interest of the people he represents). The people you should be disappointed in, is every other congress member that agreed to it. All his did (and all Obama did), was ask for something. The people in power (in Obama's case, the American people) had to give them what they asked for. Those are the ones am angry with. Ben Nelson wasn't exactly working for the interests of his state though (a state I live in).  The healthcare bill is wildly unpopular here and he went from being a 30point favorite in the polls before voting for the bill to a 30 point underdog to Governor Heineman afterwards.  In fact in a recent news story here locally he supposedly had to leave a restaurant because of other customers disgruntled by his mere presence. Allegedly people were shouting "Get him the hell out of here!". The idea of "the interests of your state" isn't just bringing $$$ into the state, it's doing so without forsaking things your constiuents care about.  And in Nebraska, on the whole, we care quite a bit about this awful healthcare bill being stopped. So no, Ben Nelson wasn't doing his job for Nebraskans, he was being a party politician and he got the bribe he did so he could hide behind it here locally.  The problem was they have severely underestimated how strongly those who oppose the bill truly oppose it.

With all this going on, how can people want to vote for this?

Fire insurance is designed to protect against an event which is similarly as unlikely as getting an illness through no fault of your own, and is as costly as most of the most expensive illnesses around. While we may feel sympathetic for someone who loses their house to a fire and doesn’t have insurance few people seem to believe that it is somehow unfair; and there is no movement to force insurance companies to allow people to buy insurance after a fire that would cover the losses in the fire, or to force insurance companies to cover homes for flood damage that are built on a flood plain that is flooded every year.

Now, in general I agree that an insurance company should not be allowed to change the price of your policy to reflect an illness that you received while being covered for that illness; and (realistically) they should be forced to make arrangements with other insurers (most likely a cash transfer) so you can transfer this coverage if you wish to transfer your policy. The important consideration is that this is much (MUCH) different from forcing companies to cover the uninsured after they have an illness. What I suggest here is for health insurance to act like INSURANCE; if you’re insured to cover $500,000 in the case of cancer than the insurance company should cover you up to $500,000 in the case of cancer. The problem with forcing insurance companies to cover an individual who doesn’t have insurance, or having the government cover someone who doesn’t have insurance, is that it forces an individual who has no obligation to help this person to pay for them through higher premiums or taxes.

Its great to feel sympathetic for the person who doesn't have insurance, but why can't you feel sympathy for the individuals who can hardly get by because they're already paying for so many other people?

The problem with health insurance is that it is simply done wrong.

While I personally do not like Obama's plan, and he was not my favorite candidate to win(I usually find that smaller, more niche candidates have the better ideas), I also don't think insurance companies have it as hard or are as innocent as some claim in this thread. If an insurance company can find a way to drop you after you get struck by a disease, they will.

If we look at how heal in handled in other parts of the world, for example, France, we see that over 75% of health is paid by the government, the rest made up in tax. France may, according to some, DROWN in tax, but they receive all the benefits they can possibly need. So imo, it's not a bad trade-off. Of course, this means things that are cheaper here, are generally more expensive in France.