Why aren't they listening to the people? Because the people can't be trusted. This is a republic not a democracy similar to that of the Greek city-states. If the founding fathers had ever thought the masses would know what was right for the nation as a whole they would have made a pure democracy or a republic where the people elect all decisions. Instead our Constitution tries every way possible to keep the masses from deciding things in the country, although a lot of that has been overturned.

As Madison implied in Federalist #10, the masses can't be left to decide for the entire nation, or what he coined as the violence of factions. People can be easily manipulated and controlled and therefore they shouldn't be paid attention too.


Now to this exact position, who knows if the people are right. All I know, James Madison would say who really gives a shit. How many of those people actually came to that decision with anyone but their own self-interests at mind. Maybe a few, a dozen, ONE.

This all goes back to the trustee versus delegate argument. In a republic, should the representatives do exactly what the populous that voted them in wants (delegate) or were they voted in to use their best judgment on decisions (trustee). I think in this country we seem to see it more as a delegate position, but I doubt the founding fathers would have seen that... or maybe they would have if only the RIGHT people were voting.

So when discussing this, I obviously don't agree with most of the bill. However, I also don't think the masses should be the deciding factor because I don't think any of them have intentions beyond self-interest. Hell if I were a poltician, despite being a strong libertarian, I'm not going to let the violence of factions affect my decision. I would make a decisions that is in the best interest of preserving rights and maintaining the well-being of the nation and its citizens.

I guess one of the major flaws of a democratic government is how involved the people become. If they aren't well educated or knowledgeable in the matters then they aren't capable of running a government. Same problem comes with a republic as if they aren't capable of making the decisions how are they capable of choosing the right people to run the government (which we all know isn't done well). Guess the only way a democracy can work is the idea of checks and balances not on just government but the people's involvement as well. Despite most Americans being manipulated to think democracy is the greatest thing ever, its quite obvious it has numerous flaws that we have to take into account just like any other form of government.

Funny thing about that is Congress almost always has a low approval rating yet generally the approval of the representatives from their local areas is quite high.  Meaning they like their guys but not the Congress as a whole.  Think usually the main reason is they don't feel they get enough done or too slow to react which is setup on purpose by our Constitution to make sure they dont' have too much power.  And if the reason is they don't act in their interests then they were never intended to do that in the first place.  Seems that Americans aren't necessarily displeased with the Congress's actions but the setup of Congress in general. 

Another reason why I don't trust the masses haha.  Actually almost all public opinion things can be broken down to a science of how they will think (had a sizable portion on public opinion in one of my political science classes).  Given certain events and certain scenarios its pretty predictable of how they will react or think. 

@Zucas. Republic isn't a term for a non-pure democracy. Its basically a term for a nation without a monarch as the Head of State. The USA is a democracy, to be more accurate its a democratic republic.

Well yea Americans, namely James Madison, called it a representative democracy.  But essentially America's government is a republic at its core.  But main point to get out of this is of course that we elect representatives not make the decisions ourselves.  Direct democracy is just not a good idea in such a large nation and in one where you can't trust the people to make the right decisions.  So obviously listening to the masses on their opinion of health care won't get you anywhere becuase it's doubtful they are thinking of the nation as a whole but just themselves. 

I'll give you a straight reason why this is happening. It's because America doesn't exactly have a real democracy. They have something SIMILAR to a democracy, but it falls short.

Also, I would LOVE to know myself every detail in this bill. Believe me, a lot of people want free healthcare in the US, but they don't trust this bill and I don't blame them. I don't trust it either! It doesn't have a public option!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgias

?

O.o

Sound a bit scary there.

In my political theory class I took,  I actually read Gorgias from Plato.  Of course Socrates completely owned him in the story and he even began to change his opinion, but man someone who prides themselves in rhetoric rather than justice is quite disturbing.  Would always say in the story how he could convince someone over a doctor about such things which is just disturbing.  Was always meant to be a knock at politicians who instead of having justice at heart only sought to deceive.  Socrates was always concerned with the bettering of the human soul while he saw the rest concerned with obtaining power, or in this case power through manipulation and deception.  Sounds very familiar to politicians nowadays and the factions Madison had talked about. 

Ironically I re-read Federalist #10 just a week ago or so, but then as you point out it does apply remarkably well to what is going on right now. 

In re-reading it one line that I found telling of which groups he would consider to be guilty of, as he would put it, the "mischiefs of faction":

"A rage for paper money, for an abolition of debts, for an equal division of property, or for any other improper or wicked project, will be less apt to pervade the whole body of the Union than a particular member of it; in the same proportion as such a malady is more likely to taint a particular county or district, than an entire State."

Socialized health care isn't as good as people think. I'm Canadian and we have it. Our taxes are much higher and if you don't get injured then you're paying higher taxes for nothing.

The better question Montana is when is the first time they will listen to us.