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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 720p Versus 1080p HDTVs. The Facts

nightsurge on 28 December 2009
iWarMachine said:
WTF!? he said that there's no difference between 1080p and 720p? WTF!? the difference is abysmal! it's like jumping from the SDTV to a HDTV!

480p (SDTV)
-720p (HDTV)
------------
240p

720p (HDTV)
-1080p (FULLHD)
------------
360p!!!!! it's 1.5 times the same jump from the SDTV to an HDTV!!!!

Actually, 720p has 66% more pixels than 480p (307,000 vs 921,000) and 1080p only has 56% more pixels than 720p (921,000 vs 2,073,000).

By raw pixels, though, the jump is obviously much larger from 720p to 1080p.  (600,000 from 480 to 720 vs 1,150,000 from 720 to 1080)



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robbo918 on 28 December 2009

Perception is also a big part of this debate. If I think it looks better (1080p) then that is what I will get. Personally I do see a difference and no I am not saying that to make people who own a 720p tv feel bad (whoever posted that was making a gross generalization).

As to the original article there are two problems. It is a SINGLE article and there are many on both sides of this debate so there goes the chance it is the singe definitive viewpoint. The second problem is it is CNET who used to be a reliable site and has been going downhill fast IMO.

As to the poster, hmm, you did some research huh? One article is research? Seriously? Research entails a lot more work and in the academic world online articles/blogs are laughed at when you use the word research in connection with them.



greenmedic88 on 28 December 2009
JamesCizuz said:
nordlead said:
Pock3R said:
Barozi said:
Andysw said:

Yes and no. The xbox 360 has a fancy upscaling function that upscales games to 1080p. It can not output native 1080p.

http://kotaku.com/201816/shane-kim-talks-360-1080p-game-output

Virtua Tennis 3 runs in native 1080p.

It's not possible to get native 1080p from a DVD....we wouldn't need bluray if we could

 

ok well i didnt read the article really....so what they are saying is the game was made on a hd disc for that old hd drive add on?? that article is tl;dr

 

now this is just complete garbage. 1080p has nothing to do with the medium it is stored on (DVD, Blu-Ray, HDD, USB Stick). Anyone who is posting any kind of information should know that.

That is true and false actually. Medium does matter with 320, 480, 720, and 1080 and higher resolution. Not due to the size of the medium but the size of the files. VCD, DVD, BD could all play ANY of those resolutions, but certain criteria have to be met. A 1080 signal requires a bitrate of atleast 72 Mbps(Mega Bits per second). Blu-ray has a bit rate of 36 Mbps, while a DVD has a bit rate of 10.5 Mbps, and CD of 1.2 Mbps.

Mbps = Mega bits per second.
MBps = Mega bytes per second(8 mega bites is a mega byte)
These are all at times 1 drives.

Now if 1080 content is 72 Mbps, that means you would need a 2x blueray drive, a 7x DVD drive, and a 60x CD drive.

Now most DVD players do have a 8x drive standard now, but when they first came out they were 2x, as 480 content was only between the 12-18 Mbps area. CD drive standard now is 52x. So older DVD players could not even stream the content, newer ones can.... Or can they?

Not only does the drive have to be a certain speed, but also has to be able to decode the information, PS3 could handle it, 360 could handle it, but what other devices could? Some BD players yeah, but you are still using a BD player. It has to do with how much power it takes to stream it as well. Some DVD players can get 720 content, but not 1080 native and some DVD players can upscale. Now the last problem comes down to storage. Now 1 second of 1080 content is 9 MEGABYTES. Now the 72 Mbps is a requirement, due to different ways it's stored and compressed etc, 72 Mbps is uncompressed fully audio/video. Now actual content for 1080 depending on how it's stored and what format it's in is between 30-50 Mbps, 50 being peak and 30 being low end. So many factors are in place it's rediculous.

Now sure, you can store 1080 content on a DVD, and CD, but you need a way to decode, stream, speed, and it's hugely limited by space. A DVD would hold around maybe 20 minutes of 1080 content in the way blu-ray standard format is, and a CD, around 4 minutes. You can say dual layer DVDs, great, 40 minutes, but now we have the problem that when you make more layers on a DVD the read speed is slower, while on a Blu-ray, no speed is lost with extra layers(till you hit 32 layers).

So yes you are right, the actual format could work on any medium HOWEVER wrong because of limitations.

You're going to make me burn a DVD to test this, but I'm pretty sure if I burn a 1920x1080 QT movie trailer to DVD, I'll still be able to get a normal frame rate if I play it off the DVD drive of any current computer.

On the second thought; no need. Unless I could burn a 1920x1080 movie file with lower compression in the range of 30-50Mbps+ bandwidth, I know it would play off DVD for example (1080p trailers online generally run around 10Mbps which for a 3:30m clip is about 256MB or about 14 minutes of video per GB of storage).

So it's not the resolution at all that anyone should be debating, only the bit rate. Lower bit rate, higher compression 1920x1080 signal will play back just fine on DVD. Is the quality the same as a 40Mbps AVC compressed A/V signal on BD? Of course not; nobody said that. But the point was a 1920x1080p signal can be stored (and played back) on just about any storage media, assuming the data bit rate doesn't exceed the format/drive.

Technically, Nord's right on the money.



Alby_da_Wolf on 28 December 2009

The higher the resolution, the higher anti-aliasing can low-pass cut spacial frequencies, so the crisper the image remains even avoiding jaggies. So a certain amount of improvement choosig 1080p can be perceived even in limit situations when 720p would be just enough to not distinguish the single pixel.

 

Edit: And interlaced resolutions are generally bad for crispness of not static images.



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Ail on 28 December 2009

If you purchase a LCD this discussion is kinda moot...
Almost every LCD with a screen size of 40 inch or more now supports 1080p........



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nightsurge on 28 December 2009
Ail said:
If you purchase a LCD this discussion is kinda moot...
Almost every LCD with a screen size of 40 inch or more now supports 1080p........

I'd dare to say even almost every 32" or higher LCD TV now supports 1080p.  37+ for sure!



greenmedic88 on 28 December 2009
Reasonable said:
dahuman said:
Reasonable said:
As others have said - and to be fair the article makes clear itself - the major factor is distance.

If you are going to be sitting fairly close to the screen when playing/watching then even on smaller TVs you will see a noticeable improvement with 1080p - particularly with sports and action movies and fast moving games.

Secondly, going forward more and more content (even games potentially) will be in 1080p, so buying below that now may reduce the potential lifetime of your TV.

Of course, money is money, and a 720p or 1080i TV should serve fine for the foreseeable future, and will be ideal with a PS3 or 360.

But if you can afford it, going 1080p is simply a better choice and the cost differential between 720p and 1080p TVs is dropping all the time.

For videogames right now 720p is probably the key resolution for consoles, with 1080p the resolution if you really intend to watch BR movies and 1080p programmes.

Of course, on PC, as others have said, 1080p has long been old news!

to be reasonable, why the hell would people buy a 40 inch TV and purposely put it super far away anyways? totally defeats the purpose of having a big screen TV, might as well get a huge white wall and a high quality projector if your living room is that big.

I know.  It's just the weird fact that so many comparisons talk about 'unless sitting closer than 8 feet you won't notice much difference' and I think, heck, I've never really sat further away than 8 feet and tried to play a game or watch a movie.

I'm guessing that the "unless sitting closer than 8 feet" pops up so often is because it's probably around the average viewing distance of the typical living room.

I'm half of the notion that most people who say 1080p doesn't matter simply already own 720p sets, don't want to buy another one and tell themselves it doesn't make a difference.

But even on a 55" flat panel, I still find myself gaming at about 5' away. And at 1920x1080, you can still make out the individual pixels at that distance, even with a native 1080p source. A 720p signal would look extremely chunky at that distance on a screen that large. Personally, I like the tighter dot pitch of a 37" at 1920x1080p, but only at closer sitting distances.

It's kind of a moot point anyway since it's already been noted that you'd be hard pressed to find an HDTV over 32" that wasn't 1080p these days. It's not even a "premium" feature anymore. The only reason for anything smaller is for a table top TV or really small room.

 



Raistline on 28 December 2009

"almost every 32" or higher LCD TV now supports 1080p"
Dare successfully fulfilled.



Gearbox on 28 December 2009
Barozi said:
nordlead said:

1) Basically, 720p is probably the best choice for any screen 50 inches and under.
2) Tv is broadcast in 720p.
3) Consoles are 720p.
4) Blu-Ray is 1080p, but the difference is minor.

1) not true. The reality is that the screen size and sitting distance determine the resolution needed for the average consumer. Any knowledgable consumer should figure out the sitting distance and the size of screen they are going to purchase, and then determine if they can notice a difference between 720 & 1080. Most won't, but some might be able to. You can also use a chart like this one to help you determine what will be cost effective.

2) not true. TV is broadcast in 720p and 1080i, with most channels using 1080i in my area (fox is the only 720p). LCD screens have a native resolution, so being forced to scale from 1080i down to 720p can be bad (if you have a cheap TV). If you want to use that argument, then a good consumer would do research first to determine what the resolution will be for their input source.

3) not true. The PS3 can output 1080p. Not very many games support 1080p, but a few do.

4) this really comes down to point 1 and doesn't make any sense in posting it.

the 360 can do 1080p too......

 

OT: I sit in front of my 24" LCD monitor and I try to watch/play everything in 1080p (or 1200p), so yeah the higher the resolution the better.

ur jking right? 360 can do 1080i not 1080p



nordlead on 28 December 2009
Gearbox said:
Barozi said:
nordlead said:

1) Basically, 720p is probably the best choice for any screen 50 inches and under.
2) Tv is broadcast in 720p.
3) Consoles are 720p.
4) Blu-Ray is 1080p, but the difference is minor.

1) not true. The reality is that the screen size and sitting distance determine the resolution needed for the average consumer. Any knowledgable consumer should figure out the sitting distance and the size of screen they are going to purchase, and then determine if they can notice a difference between 720 & 1080. Most won't, but some might be able to. You can also use a chart like this one to help you determine what will be cost effective.

2) not true. TV is broadcast in 720p and 1080i, with most channels using 1080i in my area (fox is the only 720p). LCD screens have a native resolution, so being forced to scale from 1080i down to 720p can be bad (if you have a cheap TV). If you want to use that argument, then a good consumer would do research first to determine what the resolution will be for their input source.

3) not true. The PS3 can output 1080p. Not very many games support 1080p, but a few do.

4) this really comes down to point 1 and doesn't make any sense in posting it.

the 360 can do 1080p too......

 

OT: I sit in front of my 24" LCD monitor and I try to watch/play everything in 1080p (or 1200p), so yeah the higher the resolution the better.

ur jking right? 360 can do 1080i not 1080p

read the thread, there was a link.




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