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Forums - Microsoft - Final Fantasy XIII 360 Losing 15GB

cloofoofoo on 23 December 2009
hduser said:
How is the 3 DVD version going to work with the Hard Drive install option?

I also believe that it'll be bit more than the 15 GB difference because each disc must have part of the game engine replicated across all of the disc. Call it overhead if you will.

As for compression, I'm sure you can get away with loss of quality without detracting too much from gameplay. You can spot compression if you're looking for out for it.

I'd still get the PS3 version if I was so inclined to get this game. Because of disc swapping and I like high quality video/audio. I'm not too wild about FF series so it's not a first day buy for me. Definitely on my rental list for sure.

Like the game code takes much space...it doesnt... unless you mean game assets.Even then according to the article it said the actual assets are only 8gb big.That could easily be spread among 3 disk.Problem comes I imagine when you start back tracking you might have to swap back to a previous disk like star ocean the last hope.Hopefully not.



Natal and Sony's flashing Ice cream cone

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twesterm on 23 December 2009
cloofoofoo said:
hduser said:
How is the 3 DVD version going to work with the Hard Drive install option?

I also believe that it'll be bit more than the 15 GB difference because each disc must have part of the game engine replicated across all of the disc. Call it overhead if you will.

As for compression, I'm sure you can get away with loss of quality without detracting too much from gameplay. You can spot compression if you're looking for out for it.

I'd still get the PS3 version if I was so inclined to get this game. Because of disc swapping and I like high quality video/audio. I'm not too wild about FF series so it's not a first day buy for me. Definitely on my rental list for sure.

Like the game code takes much space...it doesnt... unless you mean game assets.Even then according to the article it said the actual assets are only 8gb big.That could easily be spread among 3 disk.Problem comes I imagine when you start back tracking you might have to swap back to a previous disk like star ocean the last hope.Hopefully not.

I believe someone said Lost Oddyssey let you install all the discs and then you just keep the first disc in drive while playing.



 

gurglesletch on 23 December 2009

Wouldn't the 15 Gb's just be because of it being compressed the disks?




Get your Portable ID!

hduser on 23 December 2009
hduser said:
How is the 3 DVD version going to work with the Hard Drive install option?

I also believe that it'll be bit more than the 15 GB difference because each disc must have part of the game engine replicated across all of the disc. Call it overhead if you will.

As for compression, I'm sure you can get away with loss of quality without detracting too much from gameplay. You can spot compression if you're looking for out for it.

I'd still get the PS3 version if I was so inclined to get this game. Because of disc swapping and I like high quality video/audio. I'm not too wild about FF series so it's not a first day buy for me. Definitely on my rental list for sure.

That's why I'm saying it's a bit more.  I don't know exact numbers but I would guess that there's probably about 500MB in replicated executables/libraries across 3 discs.  So maybe about 1GB of replication on the 2 additional discs?  Anyways it's just a guess but I would think they would have to do this to reduce the amount of disc swapping and accomodate users without hard drives.



selnor on 24 December 2009
Feylic said:
NightAntilli said:
@Feylic: That's why developers put the largest files on the outside edge of the disk.. And that's also why 99% of the multiplats have faster loading on the X360. And also, if you wanna argue like that, here:

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/5399/12xdvdvsbdrs0cg.png

That graph shows that the minimum read speed is basically just a tad lower, and the maximum is way above it.. Yes, this is for 12x, since the X360 is capable of that. That does not mean all games use it, but if it's needed, they probably will. And again, even if they use 8x, the largest files are put on the outside part of the disk, and the menu files and stuff that doesn't need high read speeds are put on the inner edge. Because of this, 8x will have the advantage over 2x Blu-Ray in games.. Period.

Yea, no kidding, thats called mastering, but the fact remains that not ALL of the information can be stored at the edge of the disc, and hence, it will not always be read faster.

As for the graph, like you said it's 12X so it's pretty much useless and but the part I bolded does not work. If the game is big enough, they will use a dual layer DVD and it will be 8X, they can't just decide it will run faster at this point, it's 8, the 12 no longer matters. Because of this, over the entire size of the disc, the read speeds are quite comparable between the PS3 and 360's respective drives. PERIOD.


Just to add another twist to the debate. Alot of 360 owners install games to HDD now. 360 installs allow the whole disc to be installed and not just a gb or 2. The latest games are all optimized for this as well, and the load times are incredibly fantastic on these. FM3 is much much better than on disc. This would make 360 games much much faster than any PS3 game even with mandatory installs. ( Remember I'm mainly referring to the new 360 games where developers optimize for HDD install on 360 now. Which is basically all now it's a normal thing to do on 360. )



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selnor on 24 December 2009
Xoj said:
LordMatrix said:
Xoj said:
LordMatrix said:
HanzoTheRazor said:
The only people that will be buying it for the 360 are the ones that are fans of FF, own a 360 and have not yet prchaces a PS3.

I would not even consider getting it for my 360.

That is so NOT true! I know plenty of people who want it for their X360 and not because they don't own a damn PS3 either. Seriously!? What is is with this fanboy bullcrap? You obviously really like PS3 and that's fine but there are many out there like myself who do not prefer the PS3 over X360. 

If it comes out on X360I get it on X360 simply because it's my platform of choice. PS3 and Wii are good systems to but I use mine only when a good exclusive comes around that I am interested in. FF 13 will be just as good on X360 as it will be on PS3.

technically- nope, since ps3 uncompressed and one disc.

the only reason i see one getting  360 if because they want archivements. again ps3 have trophies

Man you couldn't be more wrong on that. Plenty of people want it for X360. Your a PS3 fanboy though so it makes sense you would think no one who has both systems would want it for X360. How about those that jsut prefer the X360 controler or those that just simply like the X360 WAY more than they liek the PS3 overall or how about those that want to buy it on the same system they know most there friends will likely purchase it on as well. These are all reasons that could make one choose the X360 version over the PS3 one. I do like achievements over trophies but my main reason for preordering it for X360 is because its my favorite system plain and simple.

its RPG, not a multiplayer gam,why the hell i care which console my friends buy it too (though 100% bought a ps3 for that and versus). u can say archivements, but if u know japanese u can have it 6 months earlier with a working dpad and on one disc, and maybe a ff14 demo like the japanese version , plus uncompressed.

 

Dont want to argue, and I'm glad you are happy getting it on the PS3. But everyone and their dog knows FF14 will be on 360 in 2010 early 2011. Live is a monster in comparison to PSN, and it will be a monthly cost for FF14 from Square. If the majority of people have PS3 and PSN are fussy over paying Live's very small £40/ year. They will be in uproar at £110/year for an MMO. ( Roughly what WOW and FF11 cost ). Whereas Live players will likely have no problem paying it. Compression has proved with lots of multiplats that quality is not an issue on 360 and in many cases looks crisper and better.

360 version isn't gimped like many PS3 fans want people to believe. Ever since the announcement PS3 fans have hated on FF13 and promoted FF13 vs which is likely to be as good as FF10 2. The reality FF13 will be identical on both consoles. And thats that.



cloofoofoo on 24 December 2009
twesterm said:
cloofoofoo said:
hduser said:
How is the 3 DVD version going to work with the Hard Drive install option?

I also believe that it'll be bit more than the 15 GB difference because each disc must have part of the game engine replicated across all of the disc. Call it overhead if you will.

As for compression, I'm sure you can get away with loss of quality without detracting too much from gameplay. You can spot compression if you're looking for out for it.

I'd still get the PS3 version if I was so inclined to get this game. Because of disc swapping and I like high quality video/audio. I'm not too wild about FF series so it's not a first day buy for me. Definitely on my rental list for sure.

Like the game code takes much space...it doesnt... unless you mean game assets.Even then according to the article it said the actual assets are only 8gb big.That could easily be spread among 3 disk.Problem comes I imagine when you start back tracking you might have to swap back to a previous disk like star ocean the last hope.Hopefully not.

I believe someone said Lost Oddyssey let you install all the discs and then you just keep the first disc in drive while playing.

Hmm really? I didnt know that but I recall  correctly once when I was on a disk 1( I had disk 1 2 3 installed) It still prompted for me to switch.Maybe I need to install all disc?( no way Id do that only got 45 gb in my 120 gb hdd)



Natal and Sony's flashing Ice cream cone

Reasonable on 24 December 2009

You know, in the end SE decided to go muliplatform just like they decided to move from Nintendo to PS2 so they could use CDs. The game will therefore be designed to support both platforms. Does that mean some elements may potentially have changed? Sure. But that's the way it is, I just wish people would deal with it.

SE have 'jumped ship' in the past when it suited them and decided it suited them with this.

The only potentially major issue I see with a game like this is that, due to DVD on 360, the designers either have to develop the plot to flow across the disks, or force regular disk swaps, while on PS3 the whole game can be run of one disk and therefore if the game was PS3 only they wouldn't have to make that choice.

But the game isn't PS3 only, they will have made that choice - I gather they've gone for the design the flow to follow the disks approach - and that's that.

The deed is done - don't give yourself heartburn over it.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Badassbab on 24 December 2009

Reasonable-

You mean just like Square decided to move from Nintendo to Sony during the PSOne era.






Feylic on 24 December 2009
selnor said:
Feylic said:
NightAntilli said:
@Feylic: That's why developers put the largest files on the outside edge of the disk.. And that's also why 99% of the multiplats have faster loading on the X360. And also, if you wanna argue like that, here:

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/5399/12xdvdvsbdrs0cg.png

That graph shows that the minimum read speed is basically just a tad lower, and the maximum is way above it.. Yes, this is for 12x, since the X360 is capable of that. That does not mean all games use it, but if it's needed, they probably will. And again, even if they use 8x, the largest files are put on the outside part of the disk, and the menu files and stuff that doesn't need high read speeds are put on the inner edge. Because of this, 8x will have the advantage over 2x Blu-Ray in games.. Period.

Yea, no kidding, thats called mastering, but the fact remains that not ALL of the information can be stored at the edge of the disc, and hence, it will not always be read faster.

As for the graph, like you said it's 12X so it's pretty much useless and but the part I bolded does not work. If the game is big enough, they will use a dual layer DVD and it will be 8X, they can't just decide it will run faster at this point, it's 8, the 12 no longer matters. Because of this, over the entire size of the disc, the read speeds are quite comparable between the PS3 and 360's respective drives. PERIOD.


Just to add another twist to the debate. Alot of 360 owners install games to HDD now. 360 installs allow the whole disc to be installed and not just a gb or 2. The latest games are all optimized for this as well, and the load times are incredibly fantastic on these. FM3 is much much better than on disc. This would make 360 games much much faster than any PS3 game even with mandatory installs. ( Remember I'm mainly referring to the new 360 games where developers optimize for HDD install on 360 now. Which is basically all now it's a normal thing to do on 360. )

While this may be true, the discussion was about both consoles respective drive speeds, not overeall load times. Once you install the game, drive speeds don't matter.