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UnstableGriffin on 19 June 2010

Since I don't consider myself a hardcore Zelda fan(though, I do have a frighteningly extensive knowledge of it) and I'm too lazy to the guy's overly long articles(Seriously, does he even have time to breath properly?), I will instead talk about Metroid instead.

LordTheNightKnight said:
jarrod said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
jarrod said:

lol Malstrom.  So sad, so bitter, so seething with bias that he can't even recognize that Other M pretty much is "Super Metroid 2" already.   And I doubt the NCL bean counters will be too disappointed when it doubles Retroid 3's sales...


He's not calling on the gameplay. He's calling on the story emphasis. And I agree, since that hurt Prime 3 compared to the first two.

Eh, a lurch to story emphasis has been with the series since Fusion.  And honestly, Sakamoto pulled it off far then better than Retro did with Prime 3.

When it comes to Metroid, all reason and logic seems to fly out the window and Malstrom reverts to an emotional infant.  Maybe that's what happens when you care that deeply about a property, but I really wish he'd take some steps back and try to apply more lateral thinking here.  At worst, it'll just be a bookend frame for the game (much like it was in Fusion and Zero Mission), only with expensive CG in place of comicbooky stills.

How does lateral thinking change his point?

Plus he's repeatedly stated the game might work, but the focus on Samus as a character will not. There is a difference, so you've just shown you haven't actually read what he wrote, and at most skimmed it and are portraying it as something completely other than what he's writing.

The only thing that's actually setting him off about the game is putting Sakamoto on a pedestal, not the game itself. So claiming he's acting like an infant about the game is lying about what he's writing.

So, basically what he means is that the game will fail for having it's focus on the main character of the story and the whole series. Yes, perfectly reasonable. That's also why 99.6% of every story ever made sucks. Sturgeon's Law is never wrong!

And maybe it's just me, but I don't remember him saying anything about Metroid: Other M, other than bashing it and then bashing it some more just for that bashing sensation. Maybe he did say something along the lines of that in his first articles about the subject, but when you start complaining how a gameplay trailer sucks because it quote unquote "is not a gameplay trailer" or that it shows more gameplay more than cutscenes, you know there's something with his priorities. Let's not forget those unfunny "parodies" of the other two trailers.

Also, I still don't know where exactly he pulled that whole "Sakamoto Game God" thing. I mean I have to admit, I never even heard of the name before checking it on Wikipedia. It's not like the game talks about Sakamoto every five seconds, I mean it was barely even mentioned in the press conference. And let's not forget that little mayhem with Metroid Database, or as I like to call "Malstrom's fantastically stupid and unnecesarry flame war that he started, just to prove how low he can be". Because I actually do visit that site quite often, he most likely edited a few posts from that forum just to make him look good and somehow let it justify his reasonings.

Mr Khan said:
jarrod said:
 

He's reacting off his gut, pure and simple.  The fact he's placing so much emphasis on story and immersion, almost at the expense of gameplay (something the Retroids never came close to getting 100% btw, and something I'd argue is far more central to Metroid) sort of underlies the hypocrascy he shows when it comes to evaluating Other M versus about everything else he speaks on.  There's no intellect there, he too emotional, too invested and not removed enough to be rational.

And no, I don't read Malstrom regularly, and I don't know the full breadth of his "thesis" on Other M.   I'm commenting more his little blurb at the top of the page, and the stupidity of him trying to compare Other M sales to DKCR sales and somehow imply that NCL will "see the light" and get Retro on "Super Metroid 2" or whatever nonsense.

The analysis of what drives Metroid is very peculiar. Ultimately i think that what drives Metroid is something similar to what drives Survival Horror games, and that no-one is entirely seeing that. Which Metroid games have been the strongest in sales and critical reception alike? The games that created a sense of survival urgency, like survival horror without the horror. What Metroid game sold best? Metroid. What Metroid game created the most urgent sense of survival? Metroid.

Metroid II, Super Metroid, and Metroid Prime created that sense of survival crisis. Even though Metroid Fusion and Metroid Prime 2 were arguably the hardest out of the set, they didn't create the sense of survival. Metroid Prime 3 heeled dangerously close to feeling like a regular FPS, as did Prime Hunters, and you can kinda see it.

At one point i'm going to write a miniature essay on this point, probably closer to when Other M comes out. Other M's success will hinge on its ability to create the sense of Survival crisis.

Being story centric will not necessarily harm it, so long as that story helps create the sense of Samus' struggle in a hostile environment.

From what I can gather, Metroid Fusion is one of the more atmospheric of the series. Then again, I am still yet to have my hands on the game, I don't exactly know the details, so don't take my points aren't exactly valid yet.

I am quite interested in that essay. I hope I get to read it sometime.



He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.

- Douglas Adams

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Soleron on 19 June 2010

Reading the impressions by someone who played the Other M demo at E3:

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/email-you-were-entirely-right-about-other-m/

 

It seems Malstrom was completely right. Not about why Metroid sells (he's wrong there), but about why Other M won't work. The story focus, the anime styling, the cutscenes, and (worse) the handholding and dumbing down of the gameplay [as in, the developer thinks you're stupid, which is nothing to do with difficulty], and the linearity.



UnstableGriffin on 19 June 2010
Soleron said:

Reading the impressions by someone who played the Other M demo at E3:

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/email-you-were-entirely-right-about-other-m/

 

It seems Malstrom was completely right. Not about why Metroid sells (he's wrong there), but about why Other M won't work. The story focus, the anime styling, the cutscenes, and (worse) the handholding and dumbing down of the gameplay [as in, the developer thinks you're stupid, which is nothing to do with difficulty], and the linearity.

... He does realize that was the beginning part of the game, right? You know, the point where character introduction and handholding gameplay is kind of expected?

With that said, the dialogue does sound kind of awkward, atleast how he describes it(I've never played the game myself, who knows if he's just exaggerating).



He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.

- Douglas Adams

Soleron on 19 June 2010
UnstableGriffin said:
...

... He does that was the beginning part of the game, right? You know, the point where character introduction and handholding gameplay is kind of expected?

With that said, the dialogue does sound kind of awkward, atleast how he describes it(I've never played the game myself, who knows if he's just exaggerating).

Compare it to Metroid Prime or Super Metroid, the openings of which were low on story/cutscenes and had the minimum of tutorial. I do agree that the impressions could be exaggerating though.

I despise story and cutscenes though - I thought Super Mario Galaxy had too much. So this is a non-buy for me even if it's tolerable for the average Metroid Prime lover.



UnstableGriffin on 19 June 2010
Soleron said:
UnstableGriffin said:
...

... He does that was the beginning part of the game, right? You know, the point where character introduction and handholding gameplay is kind of expected?

With that said, the dialogue does sound kind of awkward, atleast how he describes it(I've never played the game myself, who knows if he's just exaggerating).

Compare it to Metroid Prime or Super Metroid, the openings of which were low on story/cutscenes and had the minimum of tutorial. I do agree that the impressions could be exaggerating though.

I despise story and cutscenes though - I thought Super Mario Galaxy had too much. So this is a non-buy for me even if it's tolerable for the average Metroid Prime lover.

Well, this is going for a more conventional storytelling, so cutscenes are quite inevideable.

Cannot really argue with your distaste of story and cutscenes in video games, since it is a personal opinion. Though I do have to point out that Metroid Prime did have cutscenes too, but not as wordy for the most part.



He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.

- Douglas Adams

Around the Network
Soleron on 19 June 2010
UnstableGriffin said:
...

Well, this is going for a more conventional storytelling, so cutscenes are quite inevideable.

Cannot really argue with your distaste of story and cutscenes in video games, since it is a personal opinion. Though I do have to point out that Metroid Prime did have cutscenes too, but not as wordy for the most part.

OK, then I'll say Malstrom helped me realise in that it would be a game I wouldn't like, rather than an objectively bad game.

MP mostly had cutscenes to show bits of action that couldn't be acted out by the player, or to introduce bosses in a way that heigtens tension. Not really telling a story.

The PAL version of Metroid Prime (which I played and probably you as well) which actually removed most of the story anyway; reduced log entry story references and fewer storytelling cutscenes from the US version.



Mr Khan on 19 June 2010
UnstableGriffin said:
Soleron said:

Reading the impressions by someone who played the Other M demo at E3:

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/email-you-were-entirely-right-about-other-m/

 

It seems Malstrom was completely right. Not about why Metroid sells (he's wrong there), but about why Other M won't work. The story focus, the anime styling, the cutscenes, and (worse) the handholding and dumbing down of the gameplay [as in, the developer thinks you're stupid, which is nothing to do with difficulty], and the linearity.

... He does that was the beginning part of the game, right? You know, the point where character introduction and handholding gameplay is kind of expected?

With that said, the dialogue does sound kind of awkward, atleast how he describes it(I've never played the game myself, who knows if he's just exaggerating).

Exactly. He seems to have harped on this whole "now you can't use missiles" thing, but it's largely an issue of the beginning of the game. Clearly you're seen using missiles freely at other points.

Another critical hinge on Other M is going to be what happens to the Federation. Is it going to be like Prime 3 (or Prime 2, or Fusion) where they're always there to help you (whether it's the Federation and the Aurora Units, the Luminoth, or Adam), or are they all going to die or be otherwise separated from Samus in such a way as to leave her isolated on the hostile Bottle Ship?



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

LordTheNightKnight on 19 June 2010

"Exactly. He seems to have harped on this whole "now you can't use missiles" thing, but it's largely an issue of the beginning of the game. Clearly you're seen using missiles freely at other points."

He's calling on why, not that you can't use missiles. There is a difference. Doing it this way seems arbitrary to the story, not a proper game flow.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Soleron on 19 June 2010
LordTheNightKnight said:

"Exactly. He seems to have harped on this whole "now you can't use missiles" thing, but it's largely an issue of the beginning of the game. Clearly you're seen using missiles freely at other points."

He's calling on why, not that you can't use missiles. There is a difference. Doing it this way seems arbitrary to the story, not a proper game flow.

Yes. Metroid works because you discover the items yourself. Other M may be a great game, but it's not Metroid. Prime is closer to Super Metroid in formulation than this.

The text also pointed out that "Samus decides to disable missiles". But Samus is the player! The player doesn't want to disable missiles; by taking away control and decisions from the player you lose immersion and it becomes more of an interactive movie rather than a game.



Mr Khan on 19 June 2010
Soleron said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

"Exactly. He seems to have harped on this whole "now you can't use missiles" thing, but it's largely an issue of the beginning of the game. Clearly you're seen using missiles freely at other points."

He's calling on why, not that you can't use missiles. There is a difference. Doing it this way seems arbitrary to the story, not a proper game flow.

Yes. Metroid works because you discover the items yourself. Other M may be a great game, but it's not Metroid. Prime is closer to Super Metroid in formulation than this.

The text also pointed out that "Samus decides to disable missiles". But Samus is the player! The player doesn't want to disable missiles; by taking away control and decisions from the player you lose immersion and it becomes more of an interactive movie rather than a game.


The objections do sound more sensical this way, and i kinda understand it. If i may frame Metroid in a survival context again, Samus is choosing to not use one of the precious few tools she has. Though that part of the game clearly bucks the whole lone survivor theme anyway.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.